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Author Topic:   Self-Replicating Molecules - Life's Building Blocks (Part II)
ringo
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Posts: 13326
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 76 of 84 (811389)
06-07-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by CRR
06-06-2017 9:56 PM


Re: Pssst! Don't tell the creationists
CRR writes:

Pssst! Don't tell the creationists, but scientists don't have a clue how life began.


The difference is that scientists are LOOKING for answers; creationists are not.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by CRR, posted 06-06-2017 9:56 PM CRR has not yet responded

  
CRR
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Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016
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Message 77 of 84 (811782)
06-12-2017 7:20 AM


"Those who think scientists understand the issues of prebiotic chemistry are wholly misinformed. Nobody understands them. Maybe one day we will. But that day is far from today. It would be far more helpful (and hopeful) to expose students to the massive gaps in our understanding. They may find a firmer—and possibly a radically different—scientific theory.

The basis upon which we as scientists are relying is so shaky that we must openly state the situation for what it is: it is a mystery."

Animadversions of a Synthetic Chemist, James Tour

See also The Origin of Life: An Inside Story - 2016 Lectures (with James Tour)


Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by JonF, posted 06-12-2017 8:13 AM CRR has not yet responded
 Message 80 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2017 8:48 AM CRR has not yet responded
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 06-12-2017 12:12 PM CRR has not yet responded

  
CRR
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Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 78 of 84 (811786)
06-12-2017 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Coragyps
02-22-2010 8:50 PM


Re: New study - self replicating evolving RNA
Self-Sustained Replication of an RNA Enzyme
Tracey A. Lincoln, Gerald F. Joyce

They actually started with 3 carefully selected RNA strings and used one to join the other two small pieces into one piece (ligation), in a carefully controlled multi-step process. It's pretty much unlike anything likely to happen in nature.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Coragyps, posted 02-22-2010 8:50 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
JonF
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(1)
Message 79 of 84 (811787)
06-12-2017 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by CRR
06-12-2017 7:20 AM


Gosh! If we don't know everything we know nothing! Who would'a thunk?

Old creationist ploy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by CRR, posted 06-12-2017 7:20 AM CRR has not yet responded

  
Tangle
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From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 80 of 84 (811791)
06-12-2017 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by CRR
06-12-2017 7:20 AM


Who was it here that said we know how life started? Anyone?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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ringo
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Posts: 13326
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 81 of 84 (811827)
06-12-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by CRR
06-12-2017 7:20 AM


James tour appears to be a shill for the Discovery Institute. Can you find a quote from a scientist who doesn't have an axe to grind?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by CRR, posted 06-12-2017 7:20 AM CRR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2017 12:35 PM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
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Posts: 4888
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 82 of 84 (811828)
06-12-2017 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
06-12-2017 12:12 PM


He's also a chemist not a biologist.

It would be more useful if they could unearth an eminent, atheistic biologist to quote from.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 06-12-2017 12:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by ringo, posted 06-12-2017 12:45 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13326
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 83 of 84 (811830)
06-12-2017 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Tangle
06-12-2017 12:35 PM


Tangle writes:

It would be more useful if they could unearth an eminent, atheistic biologist to quote from.


If only such a thing existed.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2017 12:35 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
RAZD
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Posts: 18804
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 84 of 84 (815779)
07-24-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
06-24-2009 10:38 PM


Update --- have self-replicating molecules become life?
quote:
Diversification of self-replicating molecules

Abstract

How new species emerge in nature is still incompletely understood and difficult to study directly. Self-replicating molecules provide a simple model that allows us to capture the fundamental processes that occur in species formation. We have been able to monitor in real time and at a molecular level the diversification of self-replicating molecules into two distinct sets that compete for two different building blocks (‘food’) and so capture an important aspect of the process by which species may arise. The results show that the second replicator set is a descendant of the first and that both sets are kinetic products that oppose the thermodynamic preference of the system. The sets occupy related but complementary food niches. As diversification into sets takes place on the timescale of weeks and can be investigated at the molecular level, this work opens up new opportunities for experimentally investigating the process through which species arise both in real time and with enhanced detail.


This also begs the question of when "life" develops -- I would say when evolution begins, and that looks like these molecules qualify.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
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