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Author Topic:   Self-Replicating Molecules - Life's Building Blocks (Part II)
Tanypteryx
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Posts: 1561
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 91 of 97 (816261)
08-01-2017 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by CRR
08-01-2017 8:16 PM


Re: Diversification of self-replicating molecules
There's a difference between cannot happen in nature and do not happen in nature.
We can produce many chemical reactions in the laboratory that do not happen in nature.

Curiously, we have evidence that all the chemical reactions that occur in all life processes do happen in nature, so what's your point?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by CRR, posted 08-01-2017 8:16 PM CRR has not yet responded

    
Tangle
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Posts: 4983
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 92 of 97 (816263)
08-02-2017 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by CRR
08-01-2017 8:16 PM


Re: Diversification of self-replicating molecules
CRR writes:

There's a difference between cannot happen in nature and do not happen in nature

Science is looking for how life started on earth. One of the steps it can resonably take is to see if they can create it using any method at all. That woud show that life can be started using the building blocks to be found in our natural world.

The next step would be to show how life started using the conditions found on earth at the time we believe it did start. Creating the conditions to match a natural system producing simple replicating molecules is not being an intelligent designer of life.

And it's as far as it could be from being a designer of elephants, roses and people.

Of course, finding that it is possible for life to develop spontaneously from the chemistry pre-existing on our planet does not answer the question of where that chemistry came from in the first place, but it does push the problem even further back. And 'big' physics is beginning to develop some interesting ideas of how such stuff occurs.

Your mythology is no longer useful.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by CRR, posted 08-01-2017 8:16 PM CRR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by CRR, posted 08-02-2017 4:02 AM Tangle has responded

  
CRR
Member
Posts: 537
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 93 of 97 (816265)
08-02-2017 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Tangle
08-02-2017 3:05 AM


Re: Diversification of self-replicating molecules
Since abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or in the lab it remains mythical.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Tangle, posted 08-02-2017 3:05 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Tangle, posted 08-02-2017 4:33 AM CRR has not yet responded
 Message 95 by NoNukes, posted 08-03-2017 1:43 AM CRR has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4983
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 94 of 97 (816267)
08-02-2017 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by CRR
08-02-2017 4:02 AM


Re: Diversification of self-replicating molecules
CRR writes:

Since abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or in the lab it remains mythical.

No, it remains an hypothesis. Do you understand the difference?

Dredge dodged this question, maybe you'll do better. Would anything change in your beliefs if/when science creates a self-replicating life-form?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by CRR, posted 08-02-2017 4:02 AM CRR has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
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Posts: 9816
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 95 of 97 (816336)
08-03-2017 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by CRR
08-02-2017 4:02 AM


Re: Diversification of self-replicating molecules
Since abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or in the lab it remains mythical.

What a strange thing for a Christian to say. As a Christian, I am going to have to leave you out on that limb by yourself. I will leave my saw up there for you.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


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Genomicus
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Posts: 846
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 96 of 97 (816612)
08-08-2017 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by RAZD
07-24-2017 11:46 AM


Re: Update --- have self-replicating molecules become life?
This also begs the question of when "life" develops -- I would say when evolution begins, and that looks like these molecules qualify.

I'm not sure this discovery is all that significant to OoL research. Sure, it's cool science and such, but this doesn't do much to show how biological life on Earth might have arose. I made note of this in another thread about a year ago, but there are plenty of self-replicating molecular systems out there -- like Belousov-Zhabotinsky reactions, porphyrin ring formation, imide amide formation, etc. -- which means that there are plenty of possible routes to some kinds of molecular evolution occurring throughout the universe. But this doesn't do much to address how genetic-code-based life emerged on early Earth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2017 11:46 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by RAZD, posted 08-08-2017 3:43 PM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
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Posts: 18867
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 97 of 97 (816635)
08-08-2017 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Genomicus
08-08-2017 6:45 AM


Re: Update --- have self-replicating molecules become life?
... which means that there are plenty of possible routes to some kinds of molecular evolution occurring throughout the universe. But this doesn't do much to address how genetic-code-based life emerged on early Earth.

Exactly. Baby steps, chemical reproduction first, then more complex structures (when does the cell membrane come in to the picture? I see it as a mechanism to concentrate chemical reproduction reactions).

Enjoy


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