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Author Topic:   New Planet - - - possible life?
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18240
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 31 of 41 (506132)
04-22-2009 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by traste
04-22-2009 1:04 AM


Re: RE; You are uninformed
Publisher: Philosophical Library (New York) (January 19, 1984)

Surprisingly a lot has happened in the last 25 years.

Amazon.com review

quote:
A seminal work for the theory of intelligent design, this book provides a scientific critique of the prevailing paradigmatic theories of chemical evolution. The authors include Discovery fellows Charles Thaxton and Walter Bradley, and they conclude that the prebiotic soup from which the first cell supposedly arose is a myth. The Miller-Urey experiments employed an unrealistic gas mixture, and there is no geological evidence for its existence in Earth's distant past. The "soup" faces a myriad of other problems, such as inevitable rapid destruction at the hands of radiation.

In other words, the book is out-of-date hogwash. Strangely, I doubt that it goes anywhere useful or even half-way valid.

Care to comment on why you think this book has any real value?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by traste, posted 04-22-2009 1:04 AM traste has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by scoff, posted 04-22-2009 10:10 PM RAZD has responded

  
scoff
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 01-20-2006


Message 32 of 41 (506139)
04-22-2009 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by RAZD
04-22-2009 8:50 PM


Re: RE; You are uninformed
Hi RAZ,

Care to comment on why you think this book has any real value?

Since you probably won't be getting a reply on this, let me supply a generic answer.

It validates their belief, but you'll never see them admit it. Science escapes them.

Now, on to your original post:

  • It orbits its star every 13 days.
  • It circles its star 14 times closer than the Earth orbits the sun.
  • Gravity is 1.6 times as strong as the Earth's -- so a 150-pound person would feel like 240 pounds on 581 C.
  • Astronomers previously found a Neptune-sized planet circling the star Gliese 581, as well as evidence of a third planet about eight times the mass of Earth.

    I wonder, just as an exercise of the imagination and if there is indeed any kind of life on the planet, what kind of creatures might live in the dim, red light of a red dwarf. Doesn't a star enter a red dwarf stage near the end of its billions-of-years life? All those eons in which to evolve. An interesting thought.

    BTW, if you get a chance, please contact me at my old Netscape email address (don't forget the numbers 0165). I tried to send one to your old address, but it got sent back.

    Take care.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2009 8:50 PM RAZD has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 33 by cervical, posted 04-23-2009 11:34 AM scoff has responded
     Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 04-23-2009 11:50 AM scoff has responded
     Message 39 by RAZD, posted 04-23-2009 8:29 PM scoff has not yet responded

      
  • cervical
    Junior Member (Idle past 2462 days)
    Posts: 2
    From: United States
    Joined: 04-23-2009


    Message 33 of 41 (506159)
    04-23-2009 11:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 32 by scoff
    04-22-2009 10:10 PM


    Re: RE; You are uninformed
    Does anyone have any thoughts of non-carbon based life?

    I think our view on life is flawed, carbon is just another element, its nothing special. Other atoms can also make 4 bonds, they would probably just need a fluid other than water to be comfortable in. Our planets temp and pressure are perfect for carbon compounds, but another planets temp and pressure could be perfect for something else, maybe the next 4 bond making atom in that group (i don't remember the table too well)

    Why should life need water?

    This question has plagued me for a long time.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by scoff, posted 04-22-2009 10:10 PM scoff has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 35 by lyx2no, posted 04-23-2009 12:04 PM cervical has not yet responded
     Message 36 by scoff, posted 04-23-2009 6:54 PM cervical has not yet responded
     Message 38 by RAZD, posted 04-23-2009 8:23 PM cervical has not yet responded

        
    Coragyps
    Member
    Posts: 5266
    From: Snyder, Texas, USA
    Joined: 11-12-2002
    Member Rating: 6.1


    Message 34 of 41 (506162)
    04-23-2009 11:50 AM
    Reply to: Message 32 by scoff
    04-22-2009 10:10 PM


    Re: RE; You are uninformed
    Doesn't a star enter a red dwarf stage near the end of its billions-of-years life?

    Nope. Stars with, say, half the Sun's mass or less are born as "red dwarfs" - spectral class K or M stars - and stay that way for a very, very long time. Back when I first learned astronomy, the idea that stars evolved to red dwarfs was still around - you may have read the same books I did.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by scoff, posted 04-22-2009 10:10 PM scoff has responded

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     Message 37 by scoff, posted 04-23-2009 7:19 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

        
    lyx2no
    Member (Idle past 2063 days)
    Posts: 1277
    From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
    Joined: 02-28-2008


    Message 35 of 41 (506164)
    04-23-2009 12:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 33 by cervical
    04-23-2009 11:34 AM


    Just Info
    Hi cervical

    This should make for interesting reading then. I ran across it about a week ago while researching a story I'm writing for a creative writing class.


    Genesis 2
    17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
    18 And we all live happily ever after.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 33 by cervical, posted 04-23-2009 11:34 AM cervical has not yet responded

      
    scoff
    Member
    Posts: 36
    Joined: 01-20-2006


    Message 36 of 41 (506192)
    04-23-2009 6:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 33 by cervical
    04-23-2009 11:34 AM


    Re: RE; You are uninformed
    Cervical,

    I see that lyx2no supplied you with a source of info, probably better than what I had in mind.

    Your comment made me think of extremophiles such as the ones that live around volcanic vents in the ocean. Looking at the range of environments on Earth where life survives and thrives, and the multitude of forms life takes, makes the imagination pale.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 33 by cervical, posted 04-23-2009 11:34 AM cervical has not yet responded

      
    scoff
    Member
    Posts: 36
    Joined: 01-20-2006


    Message 37 of 41 (506195)
    04-23-2009 7:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 34 by Coragyps
    04-23-2009 11:50 AM


    Re: RE; You are uninformed
    You're right, Coragyps. I wasn't sure, and it seems my information was a bit outdated. Thanks for setting me straight.

    Your comment that red dwarfs can remain in that stage for a long time, though, makes the scenario I outlined still intriguing - a long span of time in which evolution is allowed to operate. The mind boggles.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 04-23-2009 11:50 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

      
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 18240
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 38 of 41 (506197)
    04-23-2009 8:23 PM
    Reply to: Message 33 by cervical
    04-23-2009 11:34 AM


    Possibilities with other chemicals
    Welcome to the fray, cervical.

    Does anyone have any thoughts of non-carbon based life?

    There are other chemicals that can form similar but different compounds, and those differences could be enough different to prevent life. One of the problems is distribution and another is the forming of the more complex molecules. Carbon has an advantage in that there are a number of space born compounds that are "pre-biotic" - almost what we call "organic" molecules because they are found in (gasp) organisms.

    Do a google search on "PAH Space" -- with "I feel lucky" I got

    http://www.astrochem.org/PANHS.html

    This can jump-start carbon based life, while other compounds don't have that advantage.

    Why should life need water?

    Life needs lubrication and flexibility for movement, multicellular life need a transport medium, and it helps to have a compound with a slight electrical bias to dissolve compounds.

    Enjoy.

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    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    Rebel American Zen Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 33 by cervical, posted 04-23-2009 11:34 AM cervical has not yet responded

      
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 18240
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 39 of 41 (506199)
    04-23-2009 8:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 32 by scoff
    04-22-2009 10:10 PM


    Re: RE; You are uninformed
    Hi Scoff, nice to see you again.

  • It orbits its star every 13 days.
  • It circles its star 14 times closer than the Earth orbits the sun.
  • Gravity is 1.6 times as strong as the Earth's -- so a 150-pound person would feel like 240 pounds on 581 C.
  • Astronomers previously found a Neptune-sized planet circling the star Gliese 581, as well as evidence of a third planet about eight times the mass of Earth.
  • Yeah, not necessarily out of the zone, but still rather alien for life we know. It might not make much difference to waterborn life.

    Enjoy

    BTW, if you get a chance, please contact me at my old Netscape email address (don't forget the numbers 0165). I tried to send one to your old address, but it got sent back.

    click on "to share" in the sig and my email addy is listed. I don't use netscape anymore, and AOL finally dissed the old netscape board and the website they had hosted (and promised to let you keep).


    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    Rebel American Zen Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by scoff, posted 04-22-2009 10:10 PM scoff has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 40 by monkey boy, posted 04-24-2009 3:54 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

      
    monkey boy
    Junior Member (Idle past 2796 days)
    Posts: 24
    Joined: 01-20-2009


    Message 40 of 41 (506272)
    04-24-2009 3:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 39 by RAZD
    04-23-2009 8:29 PM


    Re: RE; You are uninformed
    This is really just a generic reply. Looking at the size versus mass two possibilities suggest themselves. Firstly, with so hiag a mass it might be the crushed core of a much larger body. This would definitely effect the possibilities for life. Secondly it has much higher quantities of elements from the more massive end of the chart. Either way it seems to me that we are talking "exotic" lifeforms.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 39 by RAZD, posted 04-23-2009 8:29 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

        
    michalina 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 2750 days)
    Posts: 2
    From: nevada,newyork,unitrd states
    Joined: 06-12-2009


    Message 41 of 41 (511820)
    06-12-2009 4:47 AM


    SPAM
    What new news about this planet???

    Fire Science Degree

    Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Ain't telling.

    Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Still ain't telling.


        
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