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Author Topic:   Reproduction before Life
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 11 (501356)
03-05-2009 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Blue Jay
03-05-2009 1:42 PM


Re: Bump: Buzsaw
Bluejay writes:
Do you want to debate this issue?
Hi Bluejay. Thanks for opening this thread. I just got in from out of town and have eat and to do some things but will get back as soon as I can. I don't know how much debating I will be capable of doing so there will be a mix of questions and comments when I get to it.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Blue Jay, posted 03-05-2009 1:42 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 11 (501396)
03-05-2009 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Blue Jay
03-04-2009 12:33 AM


Confused Mess, Yes
Bluejay writes:
In short, this era would be a terrible, confusing mess. But, I don't see why this is a problem for abiogenesis or evolution. Anyone who studies community ecology, phylogenetics or, really, any other area of life science, knows that life and its processes are still a terrible, confusing mess today.
True, the processes would likely have some differences when compared with today's processes, but the overall picture isn't that much different. I think the major issue is that Buzsaw, like most creationists, does not realize that confusing messes are the norm in biology.
I am interested primarily in why Buzsaw thinks this period of time is problematic, and why he thinks the gradual synchronization of multiple, independent components' replication cycles is beyond the reach of random mutation plus natural selection.
I found this Wiki site which appears to explain the processes to which you allude.
After reading this about all of the corroborative synchronization requirements and sequential processes required to produce the primitive DNA/RNA proto-cells in a suitable environment for them to generate and to survive, etc, I'm not surprised that the folks here were reticent to delving into this in the infrared thread.
After all required for the proto-cell, another gamut of complicated processes would be required for success in just the right environment for the genesis of true cell/s to produce life, not to mention the extreme unlikelihood of survival and reproduction of real life organism.
It appears that all it would take in all of this would be one or two misses or absentees in any given step of the process and the whole life process fails. (abe:Imo, most potential starters would be dropouts soon in the process.) No wonder it's too complicated and difficult for science to do it all intelligently
If all of the 21st century kings men and all of the kings horses of science with all of the sophisticated computerized apparatus, etc can't produce full live organisms, how on earth, can we believe random processes and primitive selection mechanism can do the trick simply by natural and random processes?
As for your time question, perhaps you answered best for me yourself when you said, "and the advantages given by the few "proto-genes" would be random and poorly regulated, at least at first."
Bluejay, your OP was well articulated in layman's terms, forthright and balanced fairly. For a long time I've regarded this as a major problematic factor for evolution. I appreciate your effort and look forward to what we may all learn from this interesting topic.
Edited by Buzsaw, : as noted in context & Subtitle

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Blue Jay, posted 03-04-2009 12:33 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Dr Jack, posted 03-06-2009 5:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 10 by caffeine, posted 03-06-2009 10:41 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 11 by Blue Jay, posted 03-06-2009 10:42 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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