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Author Topic:   Did viruses precede other life?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 18 of 32 (145692)
09-29-2004 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by SUnderwood
09-29-2004 2:10 PM


Yes, you see organisms with problems, (i.e. sickle cell) but consider how many hundreds of billions of cells YOU are made out of, and each person is made out of, if so-called micro-evolution had any MAJOR effect on the genetic code, it would be obvious! Cells within us would have different genetic code!
What the fuck?
Exactly what sort of selection pressure do you think my individual cells experience?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by SUnderwood, posted 09-29-2004 2:10 PM SUnderwood has replied

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 Message 19 by SUnderwood, posted 09-29-2004 2:31 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 32 (145701)
09-29-2004 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by SUnderwood
09-29-2004 2:31 PM


I'm saying that genetic allel mutation occur very rarely.
Over the lifetime of an organism, yes, that's true.
Over the lifetime of a population, mutations are copious.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by SUnderwood, posted 09-29-2004 2:31 PM SUnderwood has replied

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 Message 21 by SUnderwood, posted 09-29-2004 2:57 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 32 (145709)
09-29-2004 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by SUnderwood
09-29-2004 2:57 PM


No, allel mutation is not cupious. A lot of mixing occurs due to fertilisation, but mutation of allels does not occur often.
Over the lifetime of a population, it does occur often. According to Molecular Evolution: A Phylogenetic Approach (Page, Colmes; Blackwell Science, 1998), a graduate level genetics text, the average number of synonymous substitutions in mammalian nuclear DNA is about 3.5e-9 per base, per year.
There's a lot of bases, and a lot of mammals. 3 or 4 per billion bases every year is a lot of mutations to a population.
And you can't talk about over the lifetime of a population. thats doesn't make sense.
In fact, viewing it from the perspective of populations is the only way that evolution makes sense. Populations grow and divide; it makes perfect sense to talk about the "lifetime" of a population.
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 09-29-2004 02:06 PM

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 Message 21 by SUnderwood, posted 09-29-2004 2:57 PM SUnderwood has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 32 (145742)
09-29-2004 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by SUnderwood
09-29-2004 4:13 PM


But codon substitutions is still deleterious.
Not universally, and remember, "deleterious" is generally only meaningful in reference to environment. For instance, is a mutation conferring longer, thicker fur advantageous or deleterious?
It depends on if you live in the arctic circle or the Sahara desert.
BTW, did u read the list of references which I posted?
No - I'm not certain I have the background to engage you on your main point. I simply wanted to clear up some of your misconceptions.

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