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Author Topic:   Converting raw energy into biological energy
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 200 of 314 (419852)
09-05-2007 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Rob
09-05-2007 2:08 AM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
Try harder. Here's the article:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q148256677847857/
All I did was try google scholar. Didn't work, but it told me to try the whole web. And lo and behold, I see the title of the article (minus vol., num., and date). I click on it, and it's from the same volume, number, and date listed by molbio.
Was it really that hard?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 2:08 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 2:21 AM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 202 of 314 (419856)
09-05-2007 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Rob
09-05-2007 2:21 AM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
um, zoom out? it's a pdf, right? You're using adobe, right? Adobe has a zoom in/out feature.
You know, that magnifying glass in the tool bar?
Sheesh. Are you so computer illiterate that you can figure out the boards dbCodes but can't see a graphic element? Or use the "help" function?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 2:21 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 2:33 AM kuresu has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 224 of 314 (419996)
09-05-2007 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Rob
09-05-2007 9:05 PM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
Um, all you did was bold the tentativity of science.
Precisely what Percy and Molbiogirl have told you to not do, for an obvious reason. Science is tentative! Of course it uses tentative language!
And do you realize you are only quoting the abstract to the whole article? You don't possibly think that Orgel might just go on to explain how adenine could have been formed in a prebiotic earth?
You do know what an abstract is, right?
You know, I too am far from disappointed. You're just playing the same old tricks of being unable to read and realize that science uses tentative language because science is tentative. Read the whole article.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 9:05 PM Rob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by molbiogirl, posted 09-05-2007 9:27 PM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 229 of 314 (420007)
09-05-2007 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by molbiogirl
09-05-2007 9:27 PM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
Well, he can afford to be cheap. The article that I found for him, and the orgel article, cna be read for free. All you need is adobe.
http://www.springerlink.com/

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by molbiogirl, posted 09-05-2007 9:27 PM molbiogirl has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 230 of 314 (420008)
09-05-2007 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Rob
09-05-2007 9:38 PM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
Is your argument just a version of "if we can't see it, it didn't happen"?
And you know something? We can't know which specific path is the one that ended up happening when you go so far back into the past.
However, we can come up with possible paths that do work. Other people can test to see if these possible paths do work. And they do.
We can't directly observe the past. But we can recreate it to the best of our knowledge. Why isn't this good enough?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 9:38 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Chiroptera, posted 09-05-2007 10:06 PM kuresu has not replied
 Message 233 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:13 PM kuresu has replied
 Message 240 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:26 PM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 236 of 314 (420015)
09-05-2007 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Rob
09-05-2007 10:13 PM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
I asked you a question.
You do not answer a question with a totally different (even a different subject) question.
Answer my question, I'll answer your question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:13 PM Rob has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 237 of 314 (420017)
09-05-2007 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Rob
09-05-2007 10:17 PM


Re: Rob's Balderdash XCI
you've been given the evidence.
Only to respond with complaints about how science papers use "if", "may", "possibly", and many other tentative words.
You also bring up false counterpoints, and shown how they are false.
And you still claim no evidence has been brought forward.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:17 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:24 PM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 241 of 314 (420021)
09-05-2007 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Rob
09-05-2007 10:26 PM


Re: Behe's Balderdash II
You fail to understand.
By discovering possible pathways we have evidence of how it may have actually happened.
Why do you assume that there were prebiotic organisms?
No one does. It's a contradiction. Nice straw man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:26 PM Rob has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 242 of 314 (420022)
09-05-2007 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Rob
09-05-2007 10:24 PM


Re: Rob's Balderdash XCI
You do realize that all those articles that have been cited aren't theories?
Again, you have a straw man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:24 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:53 PM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 248 of 314 (420028)
09-05-2007 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Rob
09-05-2007 10:53 PM


Re: Rob's Balderdash XCI
For the last time, the research is being done on potential pathways for the genesis of AMP and ATP and other key molecules.
The potential pathways are evidence of how it might have happened.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Its not evidence on how it did happen, no one is claiming that. Its evidence on how it might have happened.
And the research done cannot itself be the evidence
Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 10:53 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 11:14 PM kuresu has not replied
 Message 258 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 11:41 PM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 259 of 314 (420040)
09-05-2007 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by Rob
09-05-2007 11:41 PM


Re: metaphysical...
Your point?
That someone disagrees? Wow, there's always somebody who disagrees.
Now then, what the hell does this have to do with the topic, which I believe you made about how "raw" energy can catalyze biological reactions?
Even in your own thread you can't stay on topic. Amazing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Rob, posted 09-05-2007 11:41 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 09-05-2007 11:56 PM kuresu has not replied
 Message 263 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:22 AM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 265 of 314 (420049)
09-06-2007 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Rob
09-06-2007 12:11 AM


Re: metaphysical...
There's certainly no evidence of any prebiotic organisms
No shit! Prebiotic organism is a contradiction in terms.
An organism is biotic by definition.
Prebiotic suggests "before life". Organisms are life!
Are you having fun making stupid arguments? I can't believe you are ignorant on this anymore. You are stupid if you think that prebiotic organism is not a contradiction in terms.
Something cannot be before life and be life at the same time. YOu know, that favorite logic law of yours?
Please don't make this stupid argument anymore, you know it's wrong, you know it's a contradiction.
Edited by kuresu, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:11 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:37 AM kuresu has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 267 of 314 (420051)
09-06-2007 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Rob
09-06-2007 12:22 AM


Re: metaphysical...
Look, it's not metaphysical if we can figure out potential pathways for it to happen in pre-biotic earth.
Guess what, we've been figuring out potential pathways. Molbiogirl and others have given you several sources which document this.
You're the one who needs to think about what you're saying, because it's making no sense whatsoever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:22 AM Rob has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 270 of 314 (420055)
09-06-2007 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by Rob
09-06-2007 12:27 AM


Re: metaphysical...
I can't believe this.
Earth had no life in the past.
Earth has life now.
Therefore, abiogenesis happened.
It doesn't matter if god did it (after all, God used dust, which isn't alive, to make man) or if it happened by natural causes. It doesn't matter if life was seeded my aliens. All abiogenesis means is life from non-life.
Unless you argue that everything is alive, it's hard to see how this isn't a fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:27 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:48 AM kuresu has replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 272 of 314 (420057)
09-06-2007 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Rob
09-06-2007 12:39 AM


Re: metaphysical...
How would the intelligent designer make anything different?
If he was creating life, he'd have to make it out of things that aren't alive.
Or are you suggesting that life has existed from the very beginning?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:39 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Rob, posted 09-06-2007 12:53 AM kuresu has replied

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