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ICANT
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Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 17 of 321 (473582)
06-30-2008 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by autumnman
06-30-2008 7:12 AM


Re: Transmit, Translate, Interpret
autumnman writes:
2:4 these human generations the heavens and the earth as they are created at time he makes yhwh God earth and heavens.
What Hebrew word is translated as human?
Thanks,
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by autumnman, posted 06-30-2008 7:12 AM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 10:43 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 22 of 321 (473656)
07-01-2008 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by autumnman
07-01-2008 10:43 AM


Re: Humans in Genesis 2:4
autumnman writes:
Did that answer your question?
Not really. After reading your post I went digging in all my old Aramaic Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicons and could not find a word for human.
If there was one why is the human in Genesis 2:7 referred to as mankind instead of humankind?
autumnman writes:
Since the Heb. Eden Narrative is primarily focused on "the human archetype" the "generations" being referred to would be "human generations."
If these are the generations of mankind or humans why is it not given that the man lived so many years and begat someone and someone lived so many years and begat another person etc.
Human generations are not given until Genesis 5:1 and that is the generations of the man and woman created at the same time in Genesis 1:27, who never knew Eden existed.
Everything that took place from Genesis 2:4-Genesis 4:26 took place the same day the Lord God created the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 2:4 claims to be the record (account) of what took place the day the Lord God made the heaven and the earth.
It is the generations of the heaven and the earth not humans.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : Insert Hebrew word

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 10:43 AM autumnman has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 23 of 321 (473657)
07-01-2008 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by autumnman
07-01-2008 12:07 PM


Re: Genesis 2:4
autumnman writes:
Gen. 2:4 is an interesting verse in that both phrase 'a' - "these are the human generations of the heavens and the earth as they are created" - and phrase 'b' -"at the time God makes the earth and the heavens" describe God bringing into being "the heavens and the earth", and yet nowhere in the Eden Narrative does the author ever mention God creating the "fish and other aquatic creatures." However, the author does make rather prominent mention of water in the form of "rain" {Gen. 2:5); "mist" {Gen. 2:6); and "five rivers" {Gen. 2:10”14). Therefore, it is rather interesting that the author chose not to mention God creating the "fish and other aquatic creatures.".
If you will leave out the human you will be correct.
The only mention of rain was that it had not rained. It did not rain until the flood.
The earth was watered from beneath, as a mist came up and watered the entire face of the earth.
There was one river that flowed from Eden and divided into four to water the earth.
autumnman writes:
What do you guys make of this omission of the creation of the "fish and other aquatic creatures."?
There was no fish or aquatic creatures created at this time as there was no sea, no lakes, only the four rivers coming from the one river.
There was no need for fish for food as everything was a vegetarian.
If you will check Revelation you will find that at a point in the future there will be a new Heaven and Earth and there will only be dry land there will be no sea.
There will be a river that flows from the throne of God to water the earth.
I think Solomon said it best:
Eccleasiates 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 12:07 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 4:57 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 25 of 321 (473670)
07-01-2008 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by autumnman
07-01-2008 4:57 PM


Re: English
autumnman writes:
According to the English Language, "mankind" and "humankind" are both referring to "the human spcies".
The OT Bible was written in Hebrew not English. There is no Hebrew word for human.
I do not find in Genesis until 2:24 when it is talking about the man leaving his father and cleaving to his wife. It is translated father.
autumnman writes:
There is only one creation being described by two different creation accounts.
Then why don't the facts match?
autumnman writes:
but fortunately the Kethib Hebrew Text does not support your interpretation.
Then I will just have to stick with my old Aramaic Hebrew and Chaldee along with the Greek Septuagint.
If the man that was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 that ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil did not spiritualy and physicaly die the same day he ate the fruit God is a liar.
I do not believe God is a liar. Do you?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 4:57 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 7:06 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 27 of 321 (473676)
07-01-2008 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by autumnman
07-01-2008 7:06 PM


Re: Cosmology
autumnman writes:
Gen. 1:2 thru 1:31 is an ancient Hebrew cosmology.
Genesis 1:2 is fairly recent cosmology.
autumnman writes:
Gen. 2:4 thru 3:24 is an ancient Hebrew
Covers ancient Hebrew cosmology.
autumnman writes:
Give it some thought.
I have some 50+ years.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 7:06 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 8:37 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 29 of 321 (473693)
07-01-2008 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by autumnman
07-01-2008 8:37 PM


Re: Trees
autumnman writes:
the "trees" sprouting in Gen. 2:9 would correspond with Gen. 1:11 & 12;
In Genesis 2:9 the trees pleasant to sight and good for food God made to grow out of the ground. No seed in ground.
In Genesis 1:11, 12 everything came from their seed that was in the ground.
autumnman writes:
the beasts of the field and fowl of the air of Gen. 2:19 & 20 would correspond with Gen. 1:24 & 25
Genesis 2:19 God formed every beast and every fowl of the air out of the ground.
In Genesis 1:21 water creatures from the water and also every winged fowl. Fifth day.
VS 24 earth brought forth the living creature after his kind. etc.
Sixth day.
In one place the fowl come from sea and other they are formed from earth. Big difference.
Genesis 2:7 man formed from dust of ground. Before any animal or fowl.
Genesis 2:22 woman was made from rib taken from man.
Genesis 1:27 God created man in His image after His likeness. Man and woman were both created at one time on the sixth day after all animals, fowl, and water creatures.
One man made before animals other after animals. One woman made from rib other just created at same time man no rib could be involved.
Now if this is talking about the same man and woman in 1:27 and 2:7 and 2:22 the Bible is not the word of God. If the Bible is the word of God then it has to be talking about two different men and two different women or God is a liar, and can't get His stories straight.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 8:37 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 12:22 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 30 of 321 (473695)
07-01-2008 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by autumnman
07-01-2008 8:37 PM


Re: Death
autumnman writes:
The "death" described in Gen. 2:17 comes to pass when Cain kills Abel:
How does Cain killing Able have anything to do with the command God gave the man in the garden concerning the fruit.
Man was told you eat and the day you eat YOU die.
It doesn't mention anything about your son will die.
Paul tell's us in I Corinthians:
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
A lot of people are trying to understand the things of God without ever knowing God. Man must have the birth Jesus told Nicodemus about in the 3rd chapter of John before he can even begin to understand.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by autumnman, posted 07-01-2008 8:37 PM autumnman has not replied

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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 33 of 321 (473730)
07-02-2008 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by autumnman
07-02-2008 12:22 PM


Re: Trees
autumnman writes:
You are not hearing what I am attempting to share with you. First of all, there will always be differences between the two different creation texts
I know there will always be differences as they are two different events taking place at two different times.
There is no way to mesh them into one event, although that is the method put forth by most Bible students.
autumnman writes:
God did not plant seeds! God told the earth to bring forth grass, herb, tree, and the earth complied. How is that different than Gen. 2:9 where it states, "And God caused to sprout from the ground all trees..."? Gen. 1:12 states that, "the earth brought forth ... the trees" because God told it to, and Gen. 2:9 "God caused to sprout from the ground all trees".
It is kind of hard to know where you are coming from in Genesis 1:11, 12. As you have not given your interpretation of them yet.
I only have the LXX to go by which says:
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the herb of grass bearing seed according to its kind and according to its likeness, and the fruit-tree bearing fruit whose seed is in it, according to its kind on the earth, and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth the herb of grass bearing seed according to its kind and according to its likeness, and the fruit tree bearing fruit whose seed is in it, according to its kind on the earth, and God saw that it was good.
According to its kind on the earth. Seed kind already on the earth.
These two verses plainly state the seed was already on the earth and the seed is where everything came from. Where did those seed come from?
LXX Genesis 2:9 says:
And God made to spring up also out of the earth every tree beautiful to the eye and good for food, and the tree of life in the midst of the garden, and the tree of learning the knowledge of good and evil.
No seed is mentioned.
autumnman writes:
There is no human archetype on planet earth when the trees are caused to sprout in Gen. 2:9.
So since the man was put in Eden to keep the trees and plants and grasses and etc. He was not on the planet earth.
So are you saying Eden was on some other planet?
If so how did God plant the trees and all the other stuff in it?
How did the river flow from Eden and water all the face of the earth?
autumnman writes:
If the human archetype is not fully created in the garden of Eden - thus not yet part of the earth - until Gen 3:22, and does not return from the garden of Eden to the earth "to work the ground from which it was taken" until Gen. 3:23 & 24, then the flying creatures of the air and the beasts of the field are formed from the ground, Gen. 2:19 & 20, prior to there being a human species on planet earth.
So it is your contention that the man was not complete in Genesis 2:7. Yes/No.
It is your contention that Eden was on some other planet or place. Yes/No.
Please explain what the man was supposed to cultivate and keep.
As stated here:
LXX 15 And the Lord God took the man whom he had formed, and placed him in the garden of Delight, to cultivate and keep it.
If Eden was not on the planet earth how did the man dwell over against it?
LXX 23 And God said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and so he shall live forever” 24 So the Lord God sent him forth out of the garden of Delight to cultivate the ground out of which he was taken. 25 And he cast out Adam and caused him to dwell over against the garden of Delight, and stationed the cherubs and the fiery sword that turns about to keep the way of the tree of life.
autumnman writes:
God is a "spirit" and does not have a physical "image", therefore, God's image would be non-corporeal; alluding to the root of the Hebrew term for "image" which denotes "a shadow". The terminology of "after God's likeness" denotes "God's creative abilities" since the Hebrew term literally means, "to imagine, form an idea, think, devise."
So was Jesus God in the flesh as He claimed when He said I and my Father are One? Yes/No
Was Jesus lying when He said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"? Yes/No
autumnman writes:
Furthermore, let's go on the assumption that God got his stories straight, but it is we who have not yet been able to comprehend what God is conveying.
I know God got it right because He was there.
We have just been brainwashed by religion to the point we can't read simple sentences and understand them.
I have been told for 45 years that I am crazy with what I believe about what Genesis says about creation. I have been admonished by my college professors and brethren of like faith as well as those of other faith's. As far as eternity goes it really makes no difference what I believe. God is true and every man a liar.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 12:22 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 3:26 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 35 of 321 (473750)
07-02-2008 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by autumnman
07-02-2008 3:26 PM


Re: MT
autumnman writes:
quote:
Masoretic 2:15 so God leads = the human species and he guides it through the garden of Eden in regard to serving her and preserving her.
The JPS MT says:
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
If I am not mistaken serving her and preserving her would be taking care of the needs of the garden whatever they were.
If I am not mistaken for man to dress and keep the garden would be taking care of the needs of the garden whatever they were.
The LXX says cultivate and keep it. If I am not mistaken that means to take care of the needs of the garden whatever they were.
autumnman writes:
I do not know what Hebrew Text was employed in the 3rd century BCE when the Septuagint was rendered, but it is clear that neither the Samaritan Pentateuch or the Masoretic Kethib Hebrew Text correspond to what the Septuagint claims in Gen. 3:24.
Since that was 1000 years prior to Masoretes starting their work between the seventh and tenth centuries AD. It stands to reason that they were privy to manuscripts that was much older than the ones used by the Masoretes.
The Septuagint was done by 6 scribes from each tribe of Israel. They would have used the best available copies of the day as is bore out by the DSS.
autumnman writes:
Back to your question:
Eden is not of planet earth, and the five rivers describe it as not being of planet earth.
Do you have a scripture for this belief or just your belief.
In other words what is the reasoning for such a position?
autumnman writes:
Eden is therefore the Sacred Central Mountain of God from which all life flows. All five of the rivers are metaphorical, figurative, and symbolic in nature. None of these five rivers are “real”, for the Tigris and Euphrates rivers do not flow from a single watershed, as well as many other reasons.
So is your reasoning that it has to be metaphorical because the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are not as described in Genesis?
My question is, Why would they be the same.
In Genesis 1:9, & 10 all the water was in one place and all the land was in one place. As in the scientific pangea.
Since the earth was divided in the days of Peleg by God, why would everything be in the same place today as it was in the beginning?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 3:26 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 6:29 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 40 by Brian, posted 07-03-2008 3:51 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 37 of 321 (473785)
07-02-2008 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by autumnman
07-02-2008 6:29 PM


Re: Samaritan Pentateuch
autumnman writes:
which is not in the Samaritan Pentateuch that dates to the 5th century BCE:
I don't know where you got that date from. The study of the DSS dates the Samaritan Pentateuch during the second generation of the Maccabees. That would be 164 BCE to 63 BCE.
The Samaritan Pentateuch and the Septuagint are more agreeable than the Samaritan Pentateuch and the MT. To the point some thought the Samaritan Pentateuch was translated from the Septuagint.
The DSS agrees with the Septuagint in places where the MT disagrees with the Septuagint.
My copy of the Masoretic text says:
Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.
Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
autumnman writes:
Your point is?????
My point was what is the difference when the LXX and the MT says man was to take care of the garden?
autumnman writes:
And you also did not address”
quote:
AM wrote: The two-fold command God issues in Gen. 2:16 & 17 is God leading and guiding the human species through the Garden/Paradise of Eden and showing the human species how to "serve" Paradise and "preserve" Paradise. That is what the Samaritan Pentateuch and Masoretic Kethib Hebrew Text describe.
So God took the man on a personal tour and explained his duties.
Please explain what you mean by "serve" and "preserve" if it does not mean dress and keep it.
autmnman writes:
quote:
AM wrote: Eden is not of planet earth, and the five rivers describe it as not being of planet earth.
ICANT writes:
Do you have a scripture for this belief or just your belief.
Let's start with Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
So where do you suppose this Paradise of God to be?
Would it happen to be here:
quote:
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
21:13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
21:18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
21:20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
New heaven, New earth, New Jerusalem, river of life, with the tree of life on both sides.
Yep sounds like it is on earth to me.
autumnman writes:
Because the author {God or whoever} wrote these texts for our ancestors and for us. God uses the actually Euphrates river as a border of the Promised Land when speaking to Abram in Gen. 15:18 "Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates." Using a different Euphrates river in Gen. 2:14 would not make any logical sense, since as far as our most ancient ancestors were concerned there was only one "great river, the river Euphrates."
You never cease to amaze me. The earth was divided in the days of Peleg. This was around 2204 BC that the continents shifted to where they are today. Abraham lived some 392 years later. So yes everything in his day was as it is today.
autumnman writes:
You appear to be missing the concept of "authorship" and "time of composition", as well as "the audience" these texts were intended to reach, touch, and inform.
I believe the Bible is God's road map for man from the cradle to the grave on earth and beyond to the eternity that awaits everyone ever conceived.
It is suficient to reach, touch, and inform all men until today and until Jesus returns.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 6:29 PM autumnman has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 38 of 321 (473788)
07-02-2008 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by autumnman
07-02-2008 6:29 PM


Re: Questions
autumnman I had some questions I wanted to ask but did not want to add them to my last post as it was getting long.
Was all the water in one place at one time as stated in Genesis 1:9?
Was all the land mass in one place at one time as stated in Genesis 1:9?
Was the earth divided in the days of Peleg as stated in Genesis 10:25?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by autumnman, posted 07-02-2008 6:29 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by autumnman, posted 07-03-2008 3:09 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 41 of 321 (473887)
07-03-2008 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Brian
07-03-2008 3:51 AM


Re: Septuagint
Brian writes:
Which contradicts the fact that the Septuagint was one of the poorest translations of the OT known to man!
Thanks for your opinion but the folks who have been comparing it to the DSS have a different opinion.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Brian, posted 07-03-2008 3:51 AM Brian has not replied

  
ICANT
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Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 46 of 321 (473941)
07-03-2008 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by autumnman
07-03-2008 3:09 PM


Re: Questions
autumnman writes:
Do you literally accept that the earth brought forth grass, herbs, and trees prior to there being a sun and a moon? If you do take Gen. 1:11 & 12 literally even though the sun and the moon did not yet exist,
I got no problem with that.
Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
In the evening there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Light and darkness was divided.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Lo and behold we had day and night.
So what's the problem?
autumnman writes:
If your interpretation of the Revelation Text is in fact correct, what we are discussing really amounts to naught, nothing, zip. When Jesus finally returns I will surely go into the lake of fire, and you will be able to enjoy life with your God without the likes of me to clutter up a perfect world.
It doesn't have to be that way.
The God you are studying about and trying to find must be some kind of 90 lb weakling of a God.
autumnman writes:
That is like asking me, “Where is God’s abode?”
I know where that is God abides at my house.
autumnman writes:
there is no way I can reply to your questions regarding Gen. 1:9.
My questions were, was the land all in one place and the water all in one place at one time as stated in Gen. 1:9.
Science says it was, we just don't agree on the time frame.
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In Genesis 1:10 the dry land God called 'erets.
In Genesis 10:25 the 'erets was divided in Peleg's days.
The author would have used 'adamah' had he intended to refer to a plot of land, or territory.
But you read it any way you desire.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by autumnman, posted 07-03-2008 3:09 PM autumnman has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 50 of 321 (473964)
07-04-2008 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Dawn Bertot
07-03-2008 10:36 PM


Re: Falling Stars
bertot writes:
"the moon was turned to blood" or "the stars fell from the sky", we can pretty much believe and "know" that it should be figurative.
Why so?
Which way would a star have to be traveling to be falling?
Well there is one Here that is headed in some direction, I don't know if it is up or down or sideways but it is in a hurry.
It is clipping along at a mere 3 million miles per hour. If it don't hit something it is going to fall a long way.
Now the moon turning to blood does sound a little hard and for us it would seem impossible. But in Genesis 1:1 God spoke the universe into existence. It was complete and perfect at that time. Or either God is the bumbling idiot that I have been told here that He is.
If God can do that why would He have a problem with turning the moon into blood?
If a person can believe Genesis 1:1 he will have no problem believing the rest of the book. If he can't believe Genesis 1:1 he will believe nothing else in it.
Now the moon turning to blood thing happens when the sun goes out. This is in the end time.
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
The moon could be figurative, but figurative of what?
Scientist agree that the sun is going to go out one day. So that is not in question.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Dawn Bertot, posted 07-03-2008 10:36 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dawn Bertot, posted 07-04-2008 9:20 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 53 of 321 (474032)
07-04-2008 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Dawn Bertot
07-04-2008 9:20 AM


Re: Falling Stars
bertot writes:
It would have to be falling from "our" sky to be falling, otherwise its just traveling, see the difference. Things are considered "falling" if they enter a gravitational process pulling them inward or downward, hence "falling".
Why would it have to hit the earth?
Matthew and Mark, said they would fall from heaven. They did not say our stars in our solar system would necessarily be the ones to fall.
bertot writes:
Since "stars" dont travel and are stationary and only travel in the sense that the universe is expanding,
Stars don't travel.
bertot writes:
Its not falling its just traveling. If it hits the earth it will fall from the "sky".
Can't make up your mind.
It is either stationary or it is falling. It left it's orbit some 3500 years ago. There is no gravitational force holding it. It is in total free fall, the milky way does not have enough gravity pull to keep it in our solar system.
bertot writes:
So you believe at some point the moon will actually be turned into blood? If so I will have to make my apologies to AM, there is actually some one who believes this to be a literal statement. Do you also believe that all statements in the scriptures should be taken literally. If not, could you provide me with a passage that should be taken figuratively.
I take everything literally. If it turns out to be figuratively that's OK by me.
We have to be very careful when we read the Bible. It contains the Word of God, angels, demons, devils, Satan, snakes, ass, Kings, Queens, rich men, poor men, beggars, thieves, children of the devil, children of God, Jesus and His apostles, etc.
I really get a kick out of the fuss made on this site about the talking snake in the garden. Then I realize these people where not around in the 50's when I was watching Mr. Ed the talking horse and Francis the talking mule on TV. They don't understand that the devil was talking to the woman through the serpent.
bertot writes:
ICANT writes:
Now the moon turning to blood thing happens when the sun goes out. This is in the end time.
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
The moon could be figurative, but figurative of what?
Scientist agree that the sun is going to go out one day. So that is not in question.
To be completely objective here I will disagree with you as much as I might with AM on things. That's just being objective. Having said that what does all of what you said in the above quote have to do with the moon actually turning to blood. It seems a bit disjointed. Do we have to know what the moon would be figurative of for it to be figurative, cant it just be figurative?
Then why did Paul put it in there.
Are you disagreeing that the sun will go out? Science agrees.
So why did Paul follow that statement with a figurative statement?
Maybe some copyist thought that was a neat idea, so he inserted "and the moon into blood".
But if Paul put it there because God wants it there it will happen.
bertot in msg 52 writes:
I will be out most of the 4th as I am sure you will be have a wonderful day. question? Does England have a 4 of July, this is a trick question.
I don't know about England but the British Commonwealth of Cayman Islands does with fireworks and all. It is a holiday today and Monday. They have a 4 day weekend holiday. I spent 15 years there.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Dawn Bertot, posted 07-04-2008 9:20 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by autumnman, posted 07-04-2008 10:28 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 56 by Dawn Bertot, posted 07-05-2008 10:46 AM ICANT has replied

  
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