Questions of Reliability and/or Authorship

AM sorry I am not ignoring you, just one of those days. Should be able to get to your last two posts this evening.D Bertot

What Hebrew word is translated as human?Thanks,God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

AM I was going to respond to post 13, but as I look at it very closely it appears we have discussed the points you made several times before and I am sure they will come up again and again, atleast I hope so.I am content to let you proceed with your premise in conjunction with the verses you have translated.It appears that "ICANT" has started the ball rolling, as I hoped he would, as he has knowledge of the Hebrew and I clearly do not.At any rate, proceed with your premises and we will jump in.D Bertot

ICANT asks regarding AM's translation:

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AM trans.: 2:4 these human generations the heavens and the earth as they are created at time he makes yhwh God earth and heavens.

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The English terminology "human generations" serves to translate the Hebrew feminine plural noun — used "especially in genealogies=account of a man and his descendants" BDB. Since the Heb. Eden Narrative is primarilly focused on "the human archetype" the "generations" being referred to would be "human generations."Did that answer your question?Regards,
Ger

AM while we are waiting for ICANTs response you are free to proceed with your primese and conclusions from these translated verses, or are you wanting to translate the whole narrative first, either is fine with me.D Bertot

I would like to discuss a few things regarding the first 20 verses I have translated first before moving on to the rest of the Narrative.Below is one subject I would like to get your response to.bertot wrote: Gen. 2:4 is an interesting verse in that both phrase ”a’ - “these are the human generations of the heavens and the earth as they are created” - and phrase ”b’ -“at the time God makes the earth and the heavens” describe God bringing into being “the heavens and the earth”, and yet nowhere in the Eden Narrative does the author ever mention God creating the “fish and other aquatic creatures.” However, the author does make rather prominent mention of water in the form of “rain” {Gen. 2:5); “mist” {Gen. 2:6); and “five rivers” {Gen. 2:10”14). Therefore, it is rather interesting that the author chose not to mention God creating the “fish and other aquatic creatures.”.What do you guys make of this omission of the creation of the “fish and other aquatic creatures.”?To me, this omission of the creation of the “fish and other aquatic creatures.” places the focus of the entire Eden Narrative on the metaphorical creation of “the human generations of the heavens and the earth.”I'm going to take my wife out to have some lunch, and should be back by this afternoon. I'll talk to you when we get back.All the best,
Ger

Not really. After reading your post I went digging in all my old Aramaic Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicons and could not find a word for human.
If there was one why is the human in Genesis 2:7 referred to as mankind instead of humankind? If these are the generations of mankind or humans why is it not given that the man lived so many years and begat someone and someone lived so many years and begat another person etc.
Human generations are not given until Genesis 5:1 and that is the generations of the man and woman created at the same time in Genesis 1:27, who never knew Eden existed.
Everything that took place from Genesis 2:4-Genesis 4:26 took place the same day the Lord God created the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 2:4 claims to be the record (account) of what took place the day the Lord God made the heaven and the earth.
It is the generations of the heaven and the earth not humans.God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : Insert Hebrew word

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If you will leave out the human you will be correct.
The only mention of rain was that it had not rained. It did not rain until the flood.
The earth was watered from beneath, as a mist came up and watered the entire face of the earth.
There was one river that flowed from Eden and divided into four to water the earth. There was no fish or aquatic creatures created at this time as there was no sea, no lakes, only the four rivers coming from the one river.
There was no need for fish for food as everything was a vegetarian.
If you will check Revelation you will find that at a point in the future there will be a new Heaven and Earth and there will only be dry land there will be no sea.
There will be a river that flows from the throne of God to water the earth.
I think Solomon said it best: God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT: According to the English Language, "mankind" and "humankind" are both referring to "the human spcies".

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autumnman writes:

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Since the Heb. Eden Narrative is primarily focused on "the human archetype" the "generations" being referred to would be "human generations."

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I am sure you actually believe what you wrote above, and that is fine. However, the "male and female" = "the human species" described in Gen. 1:27 is the same = "the human species" mentioned in Gen. 2:7, 8, 15 & 3:24. If you believe otherwise, that is your perogative. However, the Kethib Hebrew Text {Samaritan & Masoretic} do not agree with your interpretation. There is only one creation being described by two different creation accounts.Gen. 1:2 thru 1:31 is an ancient Hebrew cosmology. Gen. 2:4 thru 3:24 is quite likely an ancient Hebrew Wisdom Poem describing the creation of all generations of human consciousness. I am aware from your statements above that you do not see it that way, but fortunately the Kethib Hebrew Text does not support your interpretation.Regards,
Ger

The OT Bible was written in Hebrew not English. There is no Hebrew word for human.I do not find in Genesis until 2:24 when it is talking about the man leaving his father and cleaving to his wife. It is translated father. Then why don't the facts match? Then I will just have to stick with my old Aramaic Hebrew and Chaldee along with the Greek Septuagint.If the man that was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 that ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil did not spiritualy and physicaly die the same day he ate the fruit God is a liar.I do not believe God is a liar. Do you?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT:

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autumnman writes:According to the English Language, "mankind" and "humankind" are both referring to "the human spcies".

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No kidding! You have got to be kidding! There are actually three: = humanity, a human, a man; = a person {male or female), a man; = a human, man, mankind. According to the Samaritan Pentateuch the Hebrew term used in Gen. 2:24 is “ = a person {male or female), a man”. According to the Masoretic Hebrew text the Hebrew term used in Gen 2:24 is also “ = a person {male or female), a man”.

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autumnman writes:There is only one creation being described by two different creation accounts.

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The “facts” as you call them, do not match because you are not reading the Kethib Hebrew Texts in a proper fashion. Gen. 1:2 thru 1:31 is an ancient Hebrew cosmology. Gen. 2:4 thru 3:24 is an ancient Hebrew Wisdom Poem. There are two very different styles of composition at work within these two different creation accounts. The “facts” tend to “match” much more closely when one realizes that there are two different styles of composition.

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autumnman writes:but fortunately the Kethib Hebrew Text does not support your interpretation.

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I would stay with whatever makes you feel happy. No! God is not a liar. God has no reason to lie; God is God. Have you ever given any thought to the possibility that your reading of the “eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” and the “death” being described is where the problem may be? Give it some thought.Regards,
Ger

Genesis 1:2 is fairly recent cosmology. Covers ancient Hebrew cosmology. I have some 50+ years.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT wrote: Even if Gen. 1:2 thru 1:31 is a post-Exilic Priestly text that still does not change the style of composition. Even if Gen. 2:4 thru 3:24 is a pre-Exilic 'J' text, that also does not alter the 'Wisdom Poem' style of composition. 50+ years of studying these ancient Hebrew Kethib Texts is impressive. However, if humanity is not fully created in God's image {a.k.a. "has become as one of us"} until Gen. 3:22 in the Eden Narrative, the "trees" sprouting in Gen. 2:9 would correspond with Gen. 1:11 & 12; the beasts of the field and fowl of the air of Gen. 2:19 & 20 would correspond with Gen. 1:24 & 25 -- only the aquatic creatures are missing. I have already explained my understanding of that omission. According to the Heb. Kethib Eden Narrative {Samaritan & Masoretic} humanity {Heb. } is sent from Eden "to work the ground from which it was taken" in Gen. 2:23 & 24, and this corresponds with the purpose for its creation mentioned in Gen. 2:5 "to work the ground." And at this point God would be blessing them and saying "Go forth and multiply" as stated in Gen. 1:28.The "death" described in Gen. 2:17 comes to pass when Cain kills Abel: Cain puts Abel to death by human execution, and since the Hebrew term for "Cain" denotes a "wooden spear" it appears as though a fabricated "article of wood" was used to kill a = "human being."But stay with what you are most comfortable with.Regards,
Ger

In Genesis 2:9 the trees pleasant to sight and good for food God made to grow out of the ground. No seed in ground.In Genesis 1:11, 12 everything came from their seed that was in the ground. Genesis 2:19 God formed every beast and every fowl of the air out of the ground.In Genesis 1:21 water creatures from the water and also every winged fowl. Fifth day.VS 24 earth brought forth the living creature after his kind. etc.
Sixth day.In one place the fowl come from sea and other they are formed from earth. Big difference.Genesis 2:7 man formed from dust of ground. Before any animal or fowl.Genesis 2:22 woman was made from rib taken from man.Genesis 1:27 God created man in His image after His likeness. Man and woman were both created at one time on the sixth day after all animals, fowl, and water creatures.One man made before animals other after animals. One woman made from rib other just created at same time man no rib could be involved.Now if this is talking about the same man and woman in 1:27 and 2:7 and 2:22 the Bible is not the word of God. If the Bible is the word of God then it has to be talking about two different men and two different women or God is a liar, and can't get His stories straight.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

How does Cain killing Able have anything to do with the command God gave the man in the garden concerning the fruit.Man was told you eat and the day you eat YOU die.It doesn't mention anything about your son will die.Paul tell's us in I Corinthians: A lot of people are trying to understand the things of God without ever knowing God. Man must have the birth Jesus told Nicodemus about in the 3rd chapter of John before he can even begin to understand.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."