The Tree of Life as God's Life

The building of the church takes place by the GROWTH of the divine life within her members. To build is to grow in Christ. In First Corinthians Paul shows us that the farm, the cultivated land for growing is the same as the building up of the building: Growing Christ in men and women is also building up the building of God. "You are God's [farm] , God's building". Some English versions would have farm. The RcV says "cultivated land" Paul planted Christ. Apollos watered Christ (1 Cor. 3:6) in Corinth. God gave the growth. God caused the divine growth of the divine life within the Corinthains.This growth of Christ was to produce materials for the building. So God's cultivated land is God's building.And if you can receive it, the gold represents the divine nature of the Father. The silver represents to redemptive work of the Son. And the precious stones represent the transformation work of the Holy Spirit. The operation of the Trinity - the Father's nature, the Son's redemption, and the Holy Spirit's transforming are all for the building up of God's habitation. No other foundation for the church can be laid except that which Paul the apostle laid, Jesus Christ Himself. And each builds upon. The precious things of the Triune God will build the house the gold as our living the Father's divine nature, the silver as our living out the redemptive work of Jesus, and the precious stones as our allowing the Holy Spirit to transform us, these are suitable materials for the building up.The worthless materials of wood, grass, and stubble must represent the things of the old fallen nature. These our found in great abundance. But they cannot build up the Lord's church. Can you see here how the building of the church only comes out of the operation upon man of the Triune God ?

Sorry I fell out of this for a while, got very busy, please continue with your exegesis, I am truely enjoying what you are writing. Its kinda nice to have a discussion that is not a debate.Please proceed with what ever you have to offer in this connectionEAM

Hi EMA, Only if you agree we are sheep (a born again child of God) before we are Baptized.Just like Jesus was the Son of God prior to His Baptism.Baptism is a picture of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.Therefore it is a public announcment that we have died to the old man and are resurrected to walk in a newness of life in Jesus Christ.God Bless,Did you get my email?

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, How do you get that from this: A gentile woman wants help. Jews at that time considered them dogs.
She wanted Jesus to heal her daughter.
The disciples wanted Jesus to send her away.
Jesus said He was not just sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel only.
She asked for help.
Jesus asks should He take their bread and cast it to the dogs?
She then gives the illustration of a mans dog eating the crumbs from the masters table.He then told her, her faith was great and what she asked was granted.So how do you make any of that say: A church is a called out assembly for a specific purpose.So what are you going on about? I got no idea what you are talking about.A scriptural New Testament Church is composed of born again children of God who have been scripturaly baptized and are covenanted together to carry out the commission of making believers, baptizing them, and then teaching them the all things He taught the disciples.You keep redefining the Greek word translated church as you cannot find one that is defined the way you believe.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, What did Paul plant?The Word of God.What did Apollos water?The Word of God. You still haven't convinced me you know what a church is.Each member of the church is admonished to study the Word of God.If we study the Word of God we will grow in grace.The building of the church takes place when God adds people to the church, that was started by Jesus in Matthew 4:19. This letter was addressed to the church at Corinth An existing church.He declares all laborers with God.He then declares to these carnal minded people who are born again members of the church at Corinth that they need some cultivation.There was a lot of false teachings that had crept in that needed to be weeded out.The Word he had planted in their minds needed some fertilizer put on it so it could grow.He also included God was building them up through the Holy Spirit that dwelt in them. The growth of the Word of God in us is not to produce materials for the building, whatever you are talking about.The Word is to strengthen us that we may be builded up into a fit vessel for service to God. So are you saying, Paul laid the foundation and started the church? Why does Paul write about building on that foundation with gold, silver, precious stone, wood, hay, stubble?Did he explain what he was talking about in verse 13?When he said, "every man's work shall be made manifest."Would you think maybe he was comparing man's works to those precious metal's and garbage?Paul goes on to explain that what ever works you have done for Him will be tried by fire. If you have done some good works that survive His test you get a reward for that work. If your works do not stand His test you will not receive any rewards for your works.Paul then drive's the nail in the coffin of the "you can lose your salvation doctrine".He said that if all our works did not survive we would still be saved. No they represent the things you do in order to receive something from God. The things you do because you feel it is your duty. The things you do grudgingly.Anything you do in worship or service for God that you don't do out of a thankful mind and spirit for what God has done for you will be cast aside.Everything we do should be for the honor and glory of God. No.The Greek word ekklesia = 1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly.Any group fulfilling this definition would be classified as a church.Jesus said: "I will build my church" Matthew 16:18.Jesus said: "Come follow me and I will make you fishers of men". Matthew 4:19.We have a called out assembly. They left their jobs and followed Jesus. They are called for a specific purpose, to be fishers of men.This group of 3 men constitute the first church of the Lord Jesus Christ.Now if you can find one Greek word translated church in the Greek texts that has a definition that fits what you are calling a church present that word and place found.Now the Triune God does have a big affect on the church.Jesus began to dome up His church.The Holy Spirit convicts man of his sins and calls him to service.God adds the increase to the church.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If by this, you mean we are saved from our sins that alienated us from God before coming a child of God, member of the body of Christ, then NO, I do not agree with this estimation. This is not what the scriptures teachI did not get the e-mail, send it to resolve8538@yahoo.com, thanks againEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

EMA,Thankyou for asking me to continue. I will try to respond to a few of ICANT's points in a way I hope will be benefitial to your desire to hear more.ICANT asks concerning the quote about Paul planting and Apollos watering. That is right. This was the living word of God. This was the ministry of the Person of Christ embodied in the word of God - "Holding forth the word of life (Phil. 2:16)This word of God is a living word "implanted" as a living seed within the believers: " ...receive in meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21)To build the local church the Christians workers must constantly minister the the living word of God and implant such a word in the hearts of the saints. When it grows, as life must grow, it will save thier souls. Actually to save the soul is also build one up into the Body of Christ. The saving and the building up in unity are closely related.You are right. Paul and Apollos ministered the word of God, full of Spirit, full of divine life. Okay. Remain unconvinced. I will however continue to write. I think EMA may be getting some benefit. This is true. And each member must live this word that they study. The life element must be derived from their study so that the living word effects their living.It is this living of Christ which builds up the church. But just to accumlate doctrinal knowledge will not build up the church, if the saints are not touching the living Spirit embodied in the word of God.Man makes the mistake that mere encrease in knowledge is spiritual growth. It may not be. The growth that the NT speaks of is the encrease of the life of Christ within the believers. This growth of His life builds the members together. Here are two passagess showing how growth and building are related: Every member must be a joint of supply, infusing into the church the nourishment of his or her living of Christ. As they love Christ the ministry of the Word of God becomes a supply of food. This comes not simply from objective information, or head knowledge alone. This food comes from the Jesus Christ that they have applied in their daily lives and lived daily.All the members then not only study the word. They live out the word and supply the Body, supply each other, supply one another. The Body builds up itself in love. Your experience of Christ is for the Body. My experience of Christ is for the Body.Our experience of obeying the word and living by Christ are all FOR the Body of Christ, for her building up of herself in love.Then we see again GROWTH and BUILDING here: This building is a living building. The cornerstone is living - the living resurrected Christ. And the saved around the cornerstone are having Christ grow in them, if the church is normal. And what is emerging is the temple of God, a habitation of God in spirit. That is a corporate vessel in which God is filling up a group of people for a corporate expression of God in man.Each local church should have such a vision. That is that they are a local expression of this growing habitation of God in spirit. We should. But the believers have to learn how to derive the life nourishment from the word of God. Many only collect facts, information, dead doctrinal knowledge. This does not build the church very much. In fact it can cause divisions. Paul warned that "winds of teaching" can damage the unity of the church: With the help of the footnotes of the Recovery Version we see that the "children" or liturally "infants" refers to those believers who are young in Christ, lacking maturity in Christ. These young are easily swayed by knowledge and can be puffed up by all that they know. Yet they are soulish and immature in the spiritual life: These believers in Corinth may have had a lot of doctrinal knowledge. But they were divisive. The winds of teaching easily blew them apart from the oneness into division. This is why some boasted that they were of Paul, or of Apollos, or of Cephas, or of Christ in a exclusive way.These "fleshy" and Christians in Corinth may in fact have had plenty of knowledge from study of the Scriptures that they had at that time. But they needed the growth in divine life. They were "infants" spiritually and very divisive.We Christians should all study the Word of God. But we must discern - [b]"Am I just getting puffed up with more and more doctrinal knowledgee? Or is the living Christ coming out in my expression, in how I think about myself, in how I think about others? In my reactions and dealings is Jesus Christ being manifested? Or am I just acculating more and more knowledge in a purely objective sense?The growth in divine life is needed for the building up of the local church. I agree. That is a beginning. Yet just adding more and more numbers of forgiven sinners to the church is not all that must take place. Those forgiven sinners must grow in the spiritual life.Born again is for growth again. The implanted word of God is able to save our souls. This saving is not just a saving from eternal damnation. It is a saving of our souls from fleshiness, division, sectarianism, sects, cliques, even national divisions, racial divisions, philosophical divisions, cultural divisions, political divisions, and divisions of gender status.Now I wrote before that Paul said the materials for the building of the church were gold, silver, and precious stones. These symbolize the divine nature of the Father (gold), the redemptive work of Christ (silver), and the transformation work of the Holy Spirit (precious stones).The inferior materials of wood, stubble, grass, etc symbolize the characteristics of the old fallen man. These are no good to build up the church. Dead doctrinal knowledge, even if it be right, may be wood, grass, and stubble.And Paul says that to try to build with the inferior materials is to "destroy" the temple of God. To try to build up the New Testament church with the inferior characteristics of the old man is to mar and desecrate the temple of God. We see that here: Consider the context:1.) To destroy the temple of God in this context is to try to build the temple with those characteristics which will be burned in the fire of Christ's examination - wood, grass, stubble.2.) To build properly the temple of God then is the build with those characteristics which will pass through the fire of Christ's examination - gold, silver, precious stone.3.) If your works are burned up in Christ's examination, you will be saved. But you will "suffer loss" (v. 15). Therefore it is logical that to be "destroy[ed]" in verse 17 corresponds to "suffer loss" before the judgment seat of Christ.In other words, the one trying to build up the church with the fallen Adamic old man will not only not be rewarded but will suffer punishment. This punishment will be short of losing eternal salvation. But it will be to "suffer loss". And it will be considered being destroyed "If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him ..."3.) To try to build the church with the Adamic fallen man is to destroy the church. It defiles the church. It mars the church. It is one matter to do so in ignorance. It is another matter to be covicted of the Holy Spirit that I am living in the old man, yet I continue to try to work for God in this old nature. This is to now mar, defile, deface, and destroy the new testament church.I am in danger of losing the reward. I am in danger of being saved yet so as through fire, barely. I am in danger of having my old stubburn soul life "destroyed" by Christ's disciplining me during the kingdom age.So we must build with the living Christ. We must not try to build the church with our Judaism, Greek philosophy, worldly wisdom, worldly politics, and enthusiasm of dead doctrinal knowledge devoid of living Christ.We must go before God and ask for mercy. That is that we may see that the only good material for the building up of the church is the Jesus Christ who comes out in our living. It is addressed to the church in Corinth and to all those in EVERY place who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: This letter of First Corinthians is addressed to Christians everywhere. Our Lord is also their Lord. We all are saints. And this letter is for all of us disciples of Jesus. That is true. They were immature. And that immaturity was chiefly manifested in their divisiveness. It was manifested in their hero exaltation of various workers of God.Paul had to tell them that all the workers are theirs. Paul is theirs. Apollos is theirs. Peter is theirs. Even all things like life and death are theirs. All things are their for them to live Christ. They need not boast or play one worker against the other. All things were there to cause them to live Christ and grow in Christ. We can be led astray even by good teaching which is lifeless, Christless.I may come and give messages on the geneologies of the Old Testament. Even there is nothing WRONG with what I teach. But it may be Spiritless, lifeless, and Christless. It may be devoid of the Christ that I have lived. The Holy Spirit does not come out in my teaching. It may be correct doctrinally. But it is DEAD spiritually.These are also "winds of teaching" that can blow away into division the young and immature. They may be impressed with the knowledge. But the teaching does not turn them to the living Person. The teaching does not make them hold fast the HEAD.Our teaching must turn people constantly to touch Christ. We do just teach ABOUT Christ. We have to teach CHRIST HIMSELF. We can only teach Christ Himself if we live Christ Himself.Paul's person and Paul's work were one in the same. What he ministered was what he LIVED. He lived Christ. When he opened the word of the Old Testament or the words of the apostles and of Jesus Himself, he taught with living authority. He taught about the Jesus taht was the Jesus he LIVED.I will stop here in this post.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This verse is somewhat negative but it very illustrative.ICANT speaks much of service to God. And he is correct that we Christians must serve God. This is elementary. What I think he does not not adequately grasp is that the real service is to allow the Triune God to work Himself into us.The real work for God is the work of God on you to work Himself into you - to wrought Christ into your being. Then when the Christian worker goes out to work she or he ministers Christ Himself to people. He ministers the Christ that has been worked into his being.ICANT speaks about the adding of people to the church. Of course people need to be added to the church. We preach the gospel, they are saved and are hopefully added to the church life. But this adding more and more people is not all that is needed.They need and we need to LIVE by the Christ who got into us. We need Christ to be ADDED to every part of our personality as God wroughts Christ into our being.I do not mean the worker should WAIT to be at some level of maturity before serving God. I mean that worker must let God work Christ more and more into the fabric of their being.What we ARE is more important that what we DO in the Christian service.When the Apostle Paul served God, worked for God what people got was Christ as a "fragrance" . He "smelled" like Jesus. He carried the aromatic fragrance, if you will, of the living Christ. When you touched Paul you had to deal with the resurrected Jesus who was so wrought into Paul's soul.Paul is simply a pattern for all the saints. The real work is for the Triune God to WORK Christ into us. Then our service, whatever we may be doing, is actually serving a living Person. We try to serve Jesus to people.This is often an unconcious service. Christ is overflowing out of us. He is spontaneously flowing out of the one who has Christ wrought deeply into his personality. "We are a fragrance of Christ to God ...".The worker must not merely teach about Christ. The worker has to "stink" with Christ. She must bring the fragrance of Christ where she works. He must bring the aromatic fragrance of the resurrected Son of God to where he goes.To some this will be a fragrance of life unto life. To others it will be a fragrance of death unto death.To some the fragrance is the same as the fragrance of the Jesus they met in private. That is a fragrance of life to life. To others when they come at the last judgement to be condemned they will recall the frasgrance. They will think that they have encountered this fragrance before. It was a fragrance of the gospel coming to them in love. But it may become the fragrance of coming judgment - a fragrance of death unto death.This is all spoken of by Paul in his second letter to Corinth.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Hi EMA, What does these scriptures teach? Does this teach that mankind is condemed to the lake of fire already because he has not believed Jesus? Yes/NoDoes this teach that mankind is not condemned to the lake of fire because he has believed Jesus? Yes/No Did this scripture teach that if you believed Jesus you would postivitily be saved? Yes/No Does this scripture teach a person who believes on Jesus has eternal life? Yes/NoThe Greek word pisteu translated believe means:1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence inA person must have total confidence that Jesus is God in the flesh, that He died on the cross for their sins and can save them if they will let Him. Mankind must believe that "GOD IS". Mankind must believe that "GOD WILL" Then mankind must believe that "GOD DID".Anyone missing one of those three steps does not have their name written in the Lamb's Book of Life.Now you seem to have scriptures that say if you do not do something else you are condemned. Would you care to share those, as I can't find any.Is there a scripture anywhere that says:If you are not baptized you are condemned?If you are not a member of the church you are condemned?If you have not done good works you are condemened?Or anything other than not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill,You are correct in your assumption.The scriptures nowhere teaches the Triune God works Himself into us.It teaches when we are born again the Holy Spirit come in and saves and seals our spirit until the day of redemption.Ephesians 2:10 teaches we are created unto good works.Paul teaches we are to put on the whole armor of God.No place does it talk of God taking control of our lives.The Bible teaches we are the temple of God. It does that because the Holy Spirit resides in us as He keeps our spirit sealed until the day of redemption. We take Him everywhere we go, and make Him partake of everything we do. There are grave warnings for defiling the temple where God the Holy Spirit resides. Why?God is not going to make you do anything.If you can't do it because you love Him then forget it. I agree that what a person is, is the most important issue.To serve God a person must be born again, washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed until the day of redemption. This takes place when a person decides God is right. Then accepts Gos's offer of a free full pardon for all past, present, and future sins in his/her life.That person will stand before justified (just as if they have never sinned or was under the penalty of the natural man).The only thing that what you do for service to Him does is to add rewards to you.But the scriptures teach that if you are born again sealed by the Holy Spirit you will follow Jesus.Goats go about their own way buting with their heads and making their own way.People who are not born again do the same.Does anyone here have an idea of what a Christian is?I have never met one in my lifetime.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, A person who is born again has the indwelling Holy Spirit that Jesus sent to lead us and guide us in all truth.Therefore if a born again child of God studies the Word of God it will change their life. If they don't study it, it will not have any effect on them.A person who does not posess the indwelling Holy Spirit to lead them in all truth will butt with their own head in their own understanding and may increase in knowledge but never come to the knowledge of the truth. How could these people be called Christians as they were not living a life like Christ? But that personal growth has nothing to do with the growth of the church. Other than when we grow and carry out the great comission God can add those we reach to the church. Do you realize and understand that Paul is talking about your physical body in this scripture? Well the problem is that there have been too many people who have come along and built a church since Jesus started His Church.Mankind needs to get out of the church building business.Jesus started His Church. He made the rules. To be a part of His Church we must follow His rules.He commanded His Church to go into the world and make disciples. Disciples are followers of Christ. A person can not be a disciple without being born again of the Holy Spirit. Those that so desire are to be baptized and then taught the all things Jesus commanded.That is God's order and any other order is out of order. I have one message to the world.God came down in the form of a man we call Jesus.He died on Calvary so man could have opportunity to receive a free full pardon and spend eternity with Him.He was buried and 72 hours later He arose as He said He would so we could have assurance that we will live forever as we are created in His image/likeness.Those who want to receive that full free pardon must believe that God will do what He says He will do.God says He will give eternal life to all those who believe.God says all who believe are not condemned.God says if you do not believe you are condemned already, because you have not believed. Not for any other reason.I have one message to the membership of the Church I pastor.Obey God and follow Him or be prepared to pay the price for disobedience.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Yes it does. We receive regeneration instantaneously in our spirit. It only takes a split second to be reborn.Transformation of the soul is a totally different story. We have to be conformed and transformed gradually thoughout an entire Christian lifetime. First a couple of passages on transformation: The word "wrought" is not used here. I concede that. But this reality amounts to the soul, the mind and will and emotion being transformed by degrees as Christ makes His home in the personality. Some may protest that this is only a beholding and reflecting as a mirror. But in light of the whole New Testament it is really Christ being worked into the personality.Now another passage saying the same thing in different words: Here Paul speaks to those saved by grace. They are born again. Paul, as a mother in labor, speaks metaphorically of his labors that Christ would be "formed" in them. In other words Paul is working that Jesus Christ would take shape, emerge, fill them up, ie. Christ would be WROUGHT into them. For the accomplishing of God's eternal purpose it is necessary that they not only be redeemed and born of God. It is needed that they be transformed by Christ being worked into their souls. Here again is the Apostle's call for the Christians to be transformed. As the Spirit renews the mind they are fashioned less and less according to this evil age. But they are transformed in thier soul unto the good, acceptable, and perfect will of God.This too is Christ being wrought or worked into them. Now we come to the actual word "wrought". What is the wroughting that Paul is speaking of? The wroughting includes the things mentioned in chapter 4 verses 16: "Therefore we do not lose heart; but though our outer man is decaying, yet out inner man is being renewed day by day. For our momentary lightness of affliction works out for us, more and more surpassingly, an eternal weight of glory."He is saying that the afflictions, trials, troubles, hardships that the apostles experience are used by God to work Christ into them. From one angle it is the wrought Christ into them. From another angle it is to have the inner man renewed day by day.Their outer man is decaying from all of the troubles. But the inner man, the new man, the Christ united inner man is developing. In this growth and development they are being renewed, transformed, conformed to Christ. The end result is more glorious than all the momentary afflictions they now face which drive them to depend on Christ.God has wrought upon them this transformation in preparation for their glorfication.Now we can examine the writings of the Apostle John: John is also a co-worker with the apostles. Paul labored that Christ would be formed in the Galatians. John and his companions also labored that Christ would be wrought into the disciples. He says here that they should not lose the things which they the laboring apostles wrought. This means the apostles co-labored with God to dispense Christ into their souls for the transformation of their personalities.He does not want them to lose any reward. This reward here is not eternal redemption or eternal life. Those are gifts. He does not want them to go back to live by the old soul, in the old man, by the old life that they lose the reward of being transformed into the image of Christ.What has been wrought in them by God directly and by His apostles in cooperation with God, should not be in vain or lost.This is really the same as Paul planting and Apollos watering that God may cause Christ to grow in the believers - same phenomenon yet differnt words are used. That is "the things which we wrought".Christ in them is the things which they wrought. Christ being worked into them is the things which the apostles wrought. I agree. There is no disagreement about this. But it is somewhat elementary. This is the milk of the word. We Christians eventually haave to go on to digest the meat. This meat includes transformation and building up in life. This meat includes having trials and difficulties in which God can work Christ into our being for His purpose.It is through many tribulations that we enter into the kingdom of God (Acts 14:22).Troubles and trials drive us deeper into Christ. Difficulties, hardships cause us to cease to live by ourselves and force us to depend on the Christ of resurrection. The benefit of these is that Christ is worked into our personality.It is not simply suffering which is a benefit. We may in fact suffer and gain nothing. Even worse, we may suffer and it only strenghtens our self. Suffering of the Christian should cause her to be deeper rooted in Christ allowing the Spirit to wrought Christ into the personality.God always desires to work Christ into the Christian. He must in a sense migrate out of our spirit and into our soul, saturating the soul, permeating the soul. This saturation and permeation results in the transformation of the soul. And this transformation is vital not for personal spirituality alone but more so for the building up of the Body of Christ the church. That is right. But it takes a long time for God to wrought Christ into our personality so that we learn to walk more and more in those works which we were created for.Do you think you can become a mature Christian instantaneously the moment you are regenerated? That is not normal. It is not normal for a natural child to leap to adulthood the same day she is born.Life must grow and develop. And God must work Christ into our being even though it only takes a second to be born again. Of course. This does not mean that God does not have to wrought Christ into our souls. This is not a matter of God usurping the human will so as to control in that sense.It is a matter of fulfilling the command of Jesus: This is a MUTUAL abiding. The Chritian remains, abides, and lingers in the realm of the resurrected Christ who is Spirit. As a result Christ abides in him. When the Christian reacts it is more and more WITH Christ and in Christ. This is mutual abiding.From abiding in Christ Christ abides in the believer. Spontaneously he learns to live out Christ. And that to the point that he can eventual say: That is control. But it is not ROBOTIC control. It is incorporation. It is mingling. It is Christ's personality BLENDED with that of the Christian. It is not the Christian living in the old man, which has been crucified with Christ. It is the Christian under the sweet control of the Christ who harmoniously blends with his soul.Let's look at the passage again in a more complete way: He lives in faith in the indwelling Son of God. Christ lives in Him. The high expression of this divine love is not only that Christ died for him. It is also that Christ gives Himself TO him. Christ lives in him in a mingled and incorporated way. For EGO to live is for Christ to live in him - [b]"It is not longer I [EGO] who live, it is Christ who LIVES IN ME; ... the life that EGO now lives is lived in faith - faith in the indwelling and living Christ who has been given not only FOR Paul but TO Paul.This is an utterance of Paul's experience of "Abide Me and I in you."And it did not happen in an instant. He grew up into this kind of maturity. He did not get it simply by acculumating more and more knowledge of the letter of Scripture. Through his hardships as a minister he allowed God to work Christ into EGO. He was transformed by the Holy Spirit wroughting Christ into his personality.We all have to follow Paul in this regard. In First Corintians it says twice that we are the temple of God. Once it refers to our individual bodies. But once it refers to the local church or the church in general as a corporate temple.The passage that I expounded on was not concerning the individual physical body as the temple of God as in 1 Cor. 6:19. Certainly each physical body of the Christians is a temple of the Holy Spirit. But in chapter 3 the temple of God refers to the church: Context here reveals that this temple of God is the church as the "habitation of God in spirit," or the "dwelling place of God in spirit" per Ephesians 2:22)The defiling of the temple in First Corintians chapter 3, in context, is to build on the churches foundation with worthless characteristics of the fallen man.This divides the church as the immature Corinthians were doing. This was their trying to build God's corporate temple with human philosophy or Jewish religion. This was to fail to grow. This was to remain fleshy and fleshly. This was to remain soulish and not develop into spiritual men and women. This was to champion one teacher against another in a divisive way.This was also to say "We are of Christ" in a way which excludes other brothers and sisters in the Lord who are just as much "of Christ".These failures of the old man, of the old fallen and sinful nature, acted to destroy the new testament church. They thought they were building on the foundation of Christ. Paul warns them that they are defiling the temple of God. They are defacing the church with thier old man.They must grow in Christ that the church may be BUILT up properly and that they may receive the reward. This all amounts to allowing the Triune God to work Christ into them for His purpose of building up the church, the dwelling place of God in spirit. Why? We must allow God to work Christ into our being as Christians because God only WANTS Christ. Nothing of Adam's fallen nature can fulfill His eternal purpose. It is only Christ wrought into us that can fulfill God's purpose.Adam is crucified with Christ. He is terminated. That is one of the the significances of baptism. The OLD man is only good for death and burial. We must be "raised to walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:4). You seem to be fighting another debate. I am not arguing about free will verses predestination.I am talking about God working the living Spirit of Christ into the soul of the Christians for the building up of the church.If you are use to another debate you better find someone who is talking about those issues. I do not regard this at all as an issue of whether or not God controls men or not in that robotic sense.One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is "self control" (Gal.5:23). So Christ control is really a higher form of "self control".Are you looking for a debate on predestination verses free will? That is not what this discussion focuses on. Amen. Then I agree with you. All true. And I am attempting to share a little more.The Christian needs not only washing and sealing. We need transformation, growth in life, building up in oneness. We need God to work Christ into our personalities. This I perfectly agree with as to eternal redemption. But Paul speaks of being saved yet as through fire. So how we build up the church may merit a reward apart from being saved forever. And we may lose that reward.This is alluded to in Paul's Corinthian letter. And it can be so serious that one is detroyed. This means to lose the enjoyment of the soul when Christ comes back to reward His servants.You know that He said if we wish to save our soul we will lose it. But if we lose our soul for his sake we will save it.To lose the soul in this regard means simply to let yourself be transformed. If we resist the sanctification and transformation of the soul, when Jesus returns we may be in danger of being disciplined, punished even though we are eternally saved. In some cases the fleshly Christian will be destroyed. This is not to perish forever. But this may be to be saved yet so as through fire , to lose the reward of the coming millennial kingdom. You may be born again and NOT follow Jesus. Otherwise there would not be 27 books in the New Testament exhorting the disciples of Jesus to essentiallyu follow Jesus.Then there is how MUCH did you follow. I may follow Jesus to say "Lord Jesus save me from my sins. Forgive me so that I will not go to hell." But then decide that I want to essentially live my old life and resist sanctification.That is not to follow Jesus very far. We are to follow the Lamb whereever He may go. You and I do not always follow Jesus. Sometimes we follow our SELF. We have to learn to deny the SELF and ENJOY Jesus instead.To follow Jesus is to ENJOY Jesus instead of living out the old Adamic life.The normal church life is a place where we may be trained to follow Jesus unto transformation andf building up in love. I am saved for the building up of the Lord's church. With this statement you have lost me.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

ICANT,The crumbs under the table for the little dogs:The Gentile woman refered Jesus as being the crumbs under the table. The table represents the land of Israel. When Jesus met this woman he had been virtually chased out of Israel by the Jews who rejected His ministry. This corresponds to the food being pushed off the table by the children.To be cast out of the Jewish capital and crucified again may represent the Jewish spiritual One being cast off of the table.Now it may be an elaborate interpretation but on the cross Jesus was really pushed off the Jewish table by the chief priests and the religionists. He was crucified. But in being crucified He became our Savior. The Gentiles and the Jews could now take in this rejected Savior and be saved.From the standpoint of the Gentiles this is the rejected food of the children being naughtily pushed off of the table. It falls down to the level that the Gentile dogs under the table can take Christ in as their spiritual food.In this way Christ being likened to the crumbs under the table for the dogs corresponds to Christ, the Jewish Messiah, rejected and crucified that the Gentiles and the Jews who humble themselves, may take Christ in as the Bread of Life for our spiritual nourishment.We Gentile "dogs" may be thankful that Christ, the great Jewish Messiah, has become small enough and available enough for us to "eat". We were unworthy. But the children, the Jews, through their rejection of the Messiah, have made this crucified Savior available that God may have mercy upon the Gentiles.This was of God's sovereign design and providence.Now, back to First Corinthians: That is correct. And the materials of gold and silver and precious stone, in context are building materials. That is because each believer is BUILDING upon the foundation.It is what is built on the foundation of Christ that will be tested. The growth of the spiritual life is therefore intimately related to what and what quality the Christian is BUILDING upon the foundation of Christ.So we say the gold, silver, and precious stones are the proper building materials. And if you can receive it, the gold represents the divine nature of the Father, the silver the redemptive work of the Son, and the precious stones the transformation work of the Holy Spirit. So the proper building materials for the living temple of God are those things wrought in us Christians by the Triune God. Yes. I would think something like that. For apart from abiding in Him we can do nothing. As Christians our life of abiding in Him fulfills His plan. If we do not learn to abide in Him all that we produce will mean nothing.The context here again is building works - works of building up the church on the foundation of Jesus Christ. Our living of Christ builds up the church. Amen. And the outcome of all our works is tested by "What does it mean to the building up of the church of Christ."For certain, our living in the flesh, living in the old man or the natural man, will be of no benefit to the new testament church.Our positive spiritual experiences and spiritual works are all for the building up of the church. Our living Christ injects life into the church of Christ one way or another. I don't think that he is purposely arguing against Arminian theology. But a clear byproduct of his teaching here is that some believers will be saved yet lose a reward.Arminian theology always interprets ANY loss by the believers after the second coming of Christ MUST be the loss of eternal redemption and eternal life.I am in agreement with you. However, you may be saved by being destroyed first. I would not exclude the matters you mention. I would include them. Actually it could be many things.The point is that they are worthless to the building up of the living church. The number of things which are of no value to the building up of the church is too big to enumerate.What we should focus upon instead is those things produced in us by the working of the Triune God. That is we need the Father's divine nature, the Son's redemptive work, and the Holy Spirit's work of transformation.Then we are precious material for the building of the church and the New Jerusalem, the enlarged church. Notice how in Revelation the street is of gold, signifying that our walk is in the divine nature of God. The pearl corresponds to the redemptive death of Jesus. And the precious stones with which the twelve foundations of the city and its wall are adorned stand for the saints, transformed by the Spirit of God.We can talk more about the New Jerusalem in the future. These are included certainly, in the worthless building materials. For they were of the flesh and the natural man, even if it was the religious natural man. And nothing honors God like Christ. So when we live Christ and express Christ and serve by and with the living Christ we BUILD upon Christ. And the church is therefore built with and filled with Christ.Such living will receive a reward at the second coming of Jesus. We can be saved and in addition receive the joy of the Lord to reign with Him in His millennial kingdom.The defeated believers will be in the outer darkness, outside of the realm of Christ's glory. Some there will be virtually destroyed as to their soul's selfish enjoyment. But all believers will be saved and eventually perfected for the church.All arrive. All may not arrive at the same time. It is the will of God that we do not postpone arriving. But if we do we cannot escape being matured and perfected TO arrive.

ICANT writes: "The scriptures nowhere teaches the Triune God works Himself into us."The Scriptures in John 14 say otherwise:16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever ;
17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans ; I will come to you.
19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
22 Judas (not Iscariot ) said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world ?"
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word ; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.In verse 17 Jesus says the Spirit will be in us.
In verse 23 Jesus says He and the Father will make their abode with those who love Him and keep His word.Many Christians do not avail themselves of the fulness of the Triune God. Nevertheless, the Triune God does work Himself into those who hunger and thirst after God's righteousness "for they shall be satisfied" (Matt 5:6).Blessings

Hi John, I agree Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us in all truth.I agree that as Paul said that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.I believe that everywhere I go I take the Holy Spirit with me. If I go to a bar or anyother place I should not go, He don't get off at the door.But the Holy Spirit is an invited guest. We receive when we accept the offer God makes to mankind, of a free full pardon for our sins.Now if you have a scripture where God says He will work His way into our life I would like to read it.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."