Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Genesis Day and the Age of the Earth: what does the Bible say?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 44 of 121 (485601)
10-10-2008 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Bambootiger
08-24-2008 7:14 PM


Re A Genesis Day
Bambootiger writes:
How long is a "day" in the first chapter of Genesis? Does the Bible say how old the earth Is?
Point of View
After reading the first 42 posts in this thread I am totaly confused and am beginning to understand why creationist views are not received very well here.
Let me see if I can make it worse.
How long is a day in the first chapter of Genesis?
One daylight period and one period of darkness.
Does the Bible say how old the earth is?
No and neither does it say how old the universe is.
Much has been said about day. yowm 1) day, time,
This word is used in Gen. 1:5, 8, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19, 23, 31.
Gen. 2:3, 4, 17. Gen. 3:5, 8. Gen. 4:14. Gen. 5:1, 2. Gen. 7:11
In fact it is used 1732 times in 1533 verses.
The meaning does not change.
Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
You tell me when the beginning was and I will tell you how old the universe and earth are. But that will not tell you when they took the form they are today.
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
I want to pay attention to the word's translated was, and without form.
Was hayah 1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out.
According to the definition of the word was is a bad translation.
It should read become, or came to be.
Without form tohuw 1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness, wasteland, a place of chaos.
Take your pick it could have been translated any of those.
But that would not have fit the theology at the time of translation.
Now moving on to the actions that took place.
Genesis 1:1 Creation of heaven (singular) and earth.
Genesis 1:2 The earth became void, no life forms, a place of chaos.
There was only darkness.
There was nothing but the face of the waters. No dry land. All covered with water.
The earth was already in existence prior to Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:3 God said let there be light.
Genesis 1:4 God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Since it was already evening there was only a period of darkness to complete day one.
But wait a minute Genesis 1:1 took place in a day.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Genesis 2:4 says it is the generations (history) of what happened in the day, the light part before the earth became a place of chaos.
This history does not end until Genesis 4:26.
The question is, how long was this light part as there was no night then to mark a cycle of light and darkness. That means there was no time as you and I know time.
Everything that took place from Genesis 1:2 through 1:5 took place in the evening and the morning of day one.
Message 15
Bambootiger writes:
If you read through these first chapters of Genesis you will see that "day" is used in different ways. On the first day only the light portion is called "day" and yet at the end of the same day the entire evening to morning is called "day" and this is despite the fact that evening to morning is not 24 hours.Another example is Genesis 2:4 where it does not say "days" but refers to all 6 days as "day" singular.
Genesis 2:4 does not refer to Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3.
It refers to Genesis 1:1 and plainly states so.
"in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heaven"
You are the first one that I have seen that noticed that the first day only lasted 12 hours from the evening until the morning.
But that is only because no one accepts that Genesis 1:1 took place at a different time that Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:6, 7 in the morning God put a firmament in the midst of the waters and divided the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Since God created a heaven in Genesis 1:1 and has now created a second heaven, we now have two heavens no make that three because Paul said he was caught up into the third heaven where God was. II Cor 12:2.
Genesis 1:9 God gathered the water into one place and dry land appeared.
Genesis 1:11 God said let the earth bring forth grass and herb yeilding seed, and fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,
whose seed is in itself, upon the earth. Where did those seed come from?
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
One period of light and one period of darkness.
Now the word yowm 1) day, time, is translated day in every instant the word day appears in the verses above.
Since we have evidence that a day is close to 24 hours now that means they were the same in Genesis from the time light and darkness was divided.
Creationist sound stupid trying to make the Bible say what they believe rather than believe what the Bible says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Bambootiger, posted 08-24-2008 7:14 PM Bambootiger has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-10-2008 11:48 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 47 of 121 (485657)
10-10-2008 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by New Cat's Eye
10-10-2008 11:48 AM


Re: Re A Genesis Day
Hi CS,
Catholic Scientist writes:
How do you distinguish between using the phrase "in the day" to mean either:
1) in one exact day
2) in the time period during
It doesn't say the day before nor does it say the day after.
It says "in the day the Lord God created the heaven and the earth".
Catholic Scientist writes:
For example: "In the day of Jesus". How do you tell if it means that Jesus only lived for one day or if means during the time period that Jesus lived?
If the phrase "In the day of Jesus" is in the Bible I can't find it in my KJV or my Greek Bibles.
Maybe you can help me out there. Where does it say that?
I did find:
I Cor. 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1:14 As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
All these scriptures are talking about the day of judgment.
Catholic Scientist writes:
I've heard that a better translation would be:
"In the beginning while God was creating the heaven and the earth"
There is only one thing wrong with what you heard. The Hebrew text does not say that.
Catholic Scientist writes:
What do you think about that?
It does not matter what I think about that or what anyone else thinks about that. It only matters what the text says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-10-2008 11:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Me4Him, posted 10-10-2008 1:25 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 50 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-10-2008 2:15 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 48 of 121 (485659)
10-10-2008 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by johnfolton
10-10-2008 12:24 PM


Re: Time dilation!!!!!!!
Hi John,
I have seen a lot of your rants and raves in posts, usually I just let them pass.
johnfolton writes:
I see it all that you all are ignorant of this one thing that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 2 peter 3:8.
John you need to quit reading
II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day with the Lord is a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day.
like this. You mentioned somewhere about adding to or taking away.
3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Who is speaking? Peter
What is Peter speaking about? Peter is talking about scoffers who would come saying "Where is the promise of his coming?"
Why is Peter speaking? It seems we are creatures of time. God is not limited by time, and Peter is trying to explain that as far as God is concerned a day is no more to God than a 1,000 years. He could have said a billion years and been right.
That was the reason Peter said as instead of is.
But it seems like Peter's explanation fall's on deaf ears when you read at it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by johnfolton, posted 10-10-2008 12:24 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by johnfolton, posted 10-10-2008 4:29 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 51 of 121 (485674)
10-10-2008 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Me4Him
10-10-2008 1:25 PM


Re A Genesis Day
Me4Him writes:
In scripture, a "Day" can equal a
"Thousand years",
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
Does Peter say one day is equal to a thousand years?
You have only one thing in Genesis that determines the length of a day. The light period and the dark period.
Me4Him writes:
Re 20:4 and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Seventh day/Millennial reign)
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
I don't see where the Bible says anything about the Seventh day/Millennial reign.
Whose interpertation is that?
Me4Him writes:
Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, (70 X 7 = 490 years/each day = a year)
This prophecy has nothing to do with the length of a day.
Me4Him writes:
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (his Resurrection)
Yes exactly 72 hours his body was in the grave. Unless you accept the Good Friday version.
Me4Him writes:
however there is no context given for the length of "DAY" in Genesis,
But there is context. There was one light period God called day and one dark period called night. The light period and the night period made up the first, second, third, forth, fifth, sixth and seventh days.
Even though the first day started in the evening. There had been light at Genesis 1:1.
We don't know exactly how long those periods were as the earth is slowing down in it's rotation making the duration of the light and dark period become larger by about 1.7 milliseconds per centry.
So the day would be longer today than it was in the week found in Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3.
Me4Him writes:
Personally, I think Day was used to establish a "Pattern" rather than describe an actual length of "Time".
You are welcome to your opinion as I am with mine. The only problem is neither make any difference with what really happened.
Our opinion does not make anything true or false.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : Get rid of one Re

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Me4Him, posted 10-10-2008 1:25 PM Me4Him has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 53 of 121 (485687)
10-10-2008 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by New Cat's Eye
10-10-2008 2:15 PM


Re A Genesis Day
Hi CS,
Catholic Scientist writes:
I'm asking how you know that it is referring to "one exact day" in which God created rather than just a "period of time" in which God created?
I am a literalistic.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
I do not try to make that verse say anything it does not say.
It says, these. That means starting right here and going until finished.
It says, Generations. That means records.
It says, Of the heavens and of the earth.
It says, in the day. Not the day before or day after. Not over a period of days. But the day they were created.
I know there are those who want to make the 7 days of Moses in Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3 take place in Genesis 1:1. But you can not be a literalistic and do that.
Catholic Scientist writes:
If it was written: "In day of ICANT, much discussion was at EvC."
Because if it was more than one day it would be written days.
Catholic Scientist writes:
Maybe the hebrews used different words for those two concepts? I dunno.
They have plural words as well. If the writter had meant over a period of time he would have used days.
Catholic Scientist writes:
There was a guy here before you came along that could read and write hebrew.
You are refering to arachnophilia I presume.
Yes we got into a few discussions. From what I gathered he was studying Hebrew for a particular version of the Hebrew Bible that dates to 1000 AD.
The only problem was that the text that the Septuagint came from was Armaic and Chaldee Hebrew which was a dead language a long before Christ.
I have a degree in Hebrew and Greek. I don't know if I took them or they took me. The Hebrew I studied had no vowels markings as the one he was studying did.
Genesis 1:1 ‘ ‘ —
‘ re'shiyth, feminine noun, the first beginning
‘ bara', verb, root word, to create, shape, form
— 'elohiym, masculine noun, plural, rulers, judges, divine ones.
'eth, particle, sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative. This is pointing out waht was created.
shamayim, the heaven,as abode of the stars.
'eth, particle, sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative. This is pointing out what was created.
'erets, feminine noun, the whole earth.
You have every Hebrew word in Genesis 1:1. The meaning of the Hebrew words are from Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon. Remember Hebrew reads right to left. You can put your own sentence together.
Literal reading: The first beginning, created, divine ones, the heaven.
The first beginning, created divine ones the earth.
Easier to say: The first beginning created divine ones the heaven, the earth.
Catholic Scientist writes:
I believe his word over yours.
You are welcome to believe anything you want to.
I will not chase this rabbit any further.
We were talking about the length of a day in Genesis.
I believe the Genesis account specifies that from the evening and morning of the first day that there was a period of light and a period of darkness that made up the first day and every day thereafter.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-10-2008 2:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-10-2008 9:46 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 54 of 121 (485693)
10-10-2008 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by johnfolton
10-10-2008 4:29 PM


Re: Time dilation!!!!!!!
Hi John,
You missed part of the quote.
Message 48
ICANT writes:
John you need to quit reading
II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day with the Lord is a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day.
ICANT writes:
like this. You mentioned somewhere about adding to or taking away.
johnfolton writes:
Your actually the one changing the wording of 2 peter 3:8 the akjv uses "as" not "is"!
I was telling you to quit reading it with an is instead of an as.
Notice the scripture says "with the Lord" it does not say with man.
10 billion years is the same to God as a day is to us maybe less when you compare a day to eternity.
So Peter was telling the people don't worry in His time Jesus will come back.
johnfolton writes:
Adam died within the day he ate from the tree yet that day was not the 24 hour day.
I believe that but you don't. You believe Adam lived over 900 years.
You are talking about the man that was created in Genesis 1:27 that was never in the Garden, never even saw the Garden and did not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But that is another discussion for a different thread.
johnfolton writes:
and you have God stopping time for Joshua. right?
I believe God can do anything.
If He wanted to stop time there is no problem.
If He wanted to put everything into suspended annimation no problem.
I don't think it was necessary to stop anything. Alaska has a long dark period and a long light period. All He had to do was tilt the earth on it's axis and give Joshua a long day.
Could the light part of day 2 be a 1000 years sure if God wanted it to be 1000 years. But then, what do you do with the dark part? Is it a 1000 years? Or do we divide it up as 500 year's of light and 500 year's of darkness?
Being raised on a farm I really have a problem with the plants that was caused to grow from the seed that was in the ground. There is no sun and moon at that point. So you got a 500 year period of light, the plants would do ok with this but it is followed by a 500 years of darkness. How would the plants survive? I think that would be a serious problem. But I have been wrong before.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by johnfolton, posted 10-10-2008 4:29 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Coragyps, posted 10-10-2008 6:01 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 56 by johnfolton, posted 10-10-2008 7:37 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 58 of 121 (485726)
10-10-2008 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by johnfolton
10-10-2008 7:37 PM


Re:
johnfolton writes:
the earth is only 13,000 years old by the scriptures.
John I have seen your arguments and I think I know what you believe.
You believe the creation week was 7,000 years long and 6,000 years from then until now. Correct me if this is wrong.
I just happen to disagree with your conclusions.
As far as eternity is concerned it makes no difference. Man has to be born again to go to heaven. Whether it has always been here or only been here 13,000 or less years.
I believe the heaven (universe) and earth have always been here in some form.
If you disagree then please inform me when Genesis 1:1 took place.
I believe Genesis 1:2 took place about 6,000 years ago.
Therefore I don't need any long periods of time or thousand year days that don't exist.
I believe every day from the evening when God divided the light from the darkness has been a period of light and darkness lasting about 24 hours
I don't have to twist any scripture to get those.
We do have evidence of such a day. In fact we have 7 every week.
So answer me this, Why would the days be different during the first week than they are now?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by johnfolton, posted 10-10-2008 7:37 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by johnfolton, posted 10-11-2008 12:06 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 69 of 121 (485929)
10-13-2008 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by johnfolton
10-11-2008 12:06 PM


Re: Book of Enoch
johnfolton writes:
Chapter 33
God shows Enoch the age of this world, its existence of seven thousand years, and the eighth thousand is the end, neither years, nor months, nor weeks, nor days
1And I appointed the eighth day also, that the eighth day should be the first-created after my work, and that the first seven revolve in the form of the seventh thousand, and that at the beginning of the eighth thousand there should be a time of not-counting, endless, with neither years nor months nor weeks nor days nor hours
In Chapter 65 of your referenced book of Enoch I find the following:
2And as much time as there was and went past, understand that after all that he created man in the likeness of his own form, and put into him eyes to see, and ears to hear, and heart to reflect, and intellect wherewith to deliberate.
3And the Lord saw all man’s works, and created all his creatures, and divided time, from time he fixed the years, and from the years he appointed the months, and from the months he appointed the days, and of days he appointed seven.
4And in those he appointed the hours, measured them out exactly, that man might reflect on time and count years, months, and hours, their alternation, beginning, and end, and that he might count his own life, from the beginning until death, and reflect on his sin and write his work bad and good; because no work is hidden before the Lord, that every man might know his works and never transgress all his commandments, and keep my handwriting from generation to generation.
In verse 3 it says the Lord divided time.
Since there is no time other than eternity before this division I will assume He is dividing eternity.
He divided it into fixed years, fixed months, and fixed days.
He appointed seven fixed days.
In these days He appointed fixed hours.
Could you explain why your 1000 year God day is not included in this division of time?
Could you also explain why it seems chapter 65 contradicts chapter 33?
BTW thanks for the website: The Reluctant Messenger of Science and Religion: Science and the World's Religions are pieces to a puzzle that need each other to form a complete picture. It is the first site that I have found that mirrors close to what I believe about the Genesis creation. Have you read all of it?
I believe there was a period of light in eternal time lasting until the evening of the first day concluded by 12 hours of darkness completing day one in Genesis 1:5.
Day 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, were all 24 hour days.
In the future there will be a new heaven and a new earth, and there will be no sea. Revelation 21:1.
The new heaven and new earth will have no night. There will only be light. If there is no dark periods only light there will be no time as we know it. There will only be the continuation of eternal time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by johnfolton, posted 10-11-2008 12:06 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by johnfolton, posted 10-13-2008 8:09 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 70 of 121 (485934)
10-13-2008 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by bluescat48
10-12-2008 8:23 PM


Re A Genesis Day
Hi bluescat48,
bluescat48 writes:
All it says it "let there be light" not let there be "spiritual light for 3 days until I create the Sun".
cat there is no verse in Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 1:31 that says anything about the sun being brought into existence. That is what create, Hebrew ‘ bara' means.
The only things in Genesis 1:2 through 1:31 that was said to be created was.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Verse 22 seems to qualify what was created in verse 21.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
These are the only things created in Gen. 1:2 - 1:31. Everything that was not said to be created (brought into existence) was already in existence, they may not have been visible but they existed prior to Genesis 1:2.
The sun, moon and stars were not created on day 4 in Genesis 1:16.
They were made to be visible on day 4. If they had been created, ‘ would have been used instead of which has nothing to do with bringing into existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by bluescat48, posted 10-12-2008 8:23 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by bluescat48, posted 10-13-2008 9:05 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 100 of 121 (502624)
03-12-2009 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Daniel4140
03-12-2009 12:11 AM


Re: Gen. 1:5 DAY = LIGHT
Hi Daniel,
Welcome,
Daniel4140 writes:
One might ask how the darkness before the first day is included in the six days of creation then? Well, that is from Exodus 20:11 which uses a different defintion of "day". In that case, the darkness before the day is made part of a 24 hour day defintion. I have an article explain this
Why do you have to assume the first day had a morning?
There can be no evening without a morning.
Genesis 1:1 and it's history as given in Genesis 2:4-4:24 took place in that period of light that had become evening in Genesis 1:5.
Don't ask me how long that light period was as I do not know when the beginning was.
I will say I believe day two was some 6k years ago.
That evening and the following morning was declared by God as the first day.
Gkod Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Daniel4140, posted 03-12-2009 12:11 AM Daniel4140 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Daniel4140, posted 03-12-2009 8:32 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 102 of 121 (502728)
03-13-2009 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Daniel4140
03-12-2009 8:32 PM


Re: Gen. 1:5 DAY = LIGHT
Hi Daniel,
Daniel writes:
This remark is confusing. Did you really mean chapter 2,3,and up chapter 4?
Yes.
But don't pay any attention to me I am just an old Bible thumper that believes God had Moses write down what He wanted us to know.
If you listen to me you will be banging your head against a wall like Taz's avatar does.
I believe in Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth (universe).
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Now I am just stupid enough to believe what God had Moses write down.
Generations is history. So this verse is the beginning of the history of what happened the day (not days) God created the heavaen and the earth.
The following verses begin with and or but.
I am ultra old universe.
But I believe modern man was created in the image of God about 6k years ago as stated in Genesis 1:27 with his generations (history) given beginning in Genesis 5:1.
As claimed.
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
I don't expect you to understand what I am saying because it goes against everything you have ever been told about this event.
Nobody has believed me in the last 50+ years, I just love to tell it anyway.
I believe there was a light period that began in Genesis 1:1.
That light period lasted until the evening we find in Genesis 1:5.
That is the reason God began with evening because the light period had ended.
The following morning came 12 hours later and the second day began.
The second day and all the following 5 days of creation was almost 24 hours each.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Daniel4140, posted 03-12-2009 8:32 PM Daniel4140 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Daniel4140, posted 03-13-2009 12:43 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 104 of 121 (502733)
03-13-2009 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Daniel4140
03-13-2009 12:43 AM


Re: Gen. 1:5 DAY = LIGHT
Hi Daniel,
Daniel writes:
Perhaps if you answer this question, I can get you to clarify your position. When do you think the stars were made? When do you think Genesis 1 says the stars were made?
Everything in the universe was created in Genesis 1:1.
God is eternal.
That means He has always been.
He said in the beginning.
He did not say in the beginning of the universe.
When was the beginning?
Was it 6,000 years ago?
Was it 14.7 billion years ago?
Or was it a lot longer than that?
He created the heaven and the earth.
Was it in the form we see it today?
Not necessarly.
God can do anything.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Daniel4140, posted 03-13-2009 12:43 AM Daniel4140 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by anglagard, posted 03-13-2009 8:24 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 107 of 121 (502796)
03-13-2009 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Peg
03-13-2009 8:47 AM


Re: Gen. 1:5 DAY = LIGHT
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
The Hebrews began their 'day' in the evening, after sunset, and ended it the next day at sunset. This shows that its not always based on daylight.
Since they thought God started His work in the evening, why wouldn't they start their day at evening?
Really that is what their book said. Genesis 1:5 the evening and the morning was the first day.
Peg writes:
Sometimes the word 'day' is used to indicate a measure of distance, as in the expressions 'a day’s journey' Nu 11:31
Actually it did not measure the distance. It limited the distance a man could travel from morning until evening depending upon the mode of transportation.
Peg writes:
The term 'day(s)' is also used with reference to a time period contemporaneous with a particular person, as for example, 'the days of Noah' and 'the days of Lot.' Lu 17:26-30 & Isa 1:1.
Day = 24 hours
Days = multiple 24 hour periods.
Days of Noah = the number of 24 hour periods in the life span of Noah.
Days of Lot = the number of 24 hour periods in the life span of Lot.
In each of your examples day = 24 hours.
Peg writes:
But that strongest evidence for me that 'day' in genesis is not literally 24 hours long is that the account says that each day came to its completion with the words ... 'And there came to be evening and there came to be morning' a first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth day. but the seventh day is not said to have come to its completion. Is that day still in progress??? Is God still resting from his creative works?
In what perversion of the Bible do you find, "and there came to be morning" or "And there came to be evening".
Peg writes:
Perhaps so because at Hebrews 4:1-10 the apostle Paul indicated that God’s rest day was still continuing in his generation, and that was more than 4,000 years after that seventh-day rest period began.
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God (ended) his work which he had made; and he (rested) on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
God transliterated kalah meaning, completed, finished.
God transliterated shabath meaning, ceased, rested from labor.
God ceased His creative work.6k+ years ago.
God will resume His creative work, When the heavens and the earth melts with fervent heat (2Peter 3:10) and God creates a New Heaven and a New Earth (Revelation 21:1).
So yes God's day of not creating is still continuing as described by Peter, To God time does not exist.
But the 7th day of Genesis 2:3 ended with the morning of the first day of the week.
SORRY THE HEBREW TEXT WILL NOT APPEAR CORRECTLY.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Peg, posted 03-13-2009 8:47 AM Peg has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 108 of 121 (502801)
03-13-2009 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by anglagard
03-13-2009 8:24 AM


Re: Gen. 1:5 DAY = LIGHT
Hi anglagard,
anglagard writes:
The book came before the universe? Guess that whole thing about Moses describing his own death must have been pre-witten.
I don't know if it is good to have a librarian or English teacher to keep me straight or not.
Thanks, I should have said:
Everything in the universe was created in the beginning as recorded in Genesis 1:1.
anglagard writes:
I suppose someone else's god would curse humankind for arrogantly using their knowledge to cure smallpox, malaria, leprosy, or indeed work to cure hunger and poverty.
Well my God gave man the knowledge and ability to learn to cure those things.
anglagard writes:
So what is more important to Christians? How long a day is or to heal the sick, feed the poor, and uplift the meek?
Enough is Enough.
In the town where I live we have two food banks, 1 homeless shelter, 1 shelter for battered women and 1 for young girls who get pregnant.
Everyone of them is owned and run by those Christians you claim to be better than.
I have yet to find the one sponsored by any other religion, or the one sponsored by the atheist.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by anglagard, posted 03-13-2009 8:24 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by anglagard, posted 03-14-2009 8:57 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 119 of 121 (503022)
03-15-2009 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by anglagard
03-14-2009 8:57 PM


Re: Dishonest Accusation
Hi anglagard,
Support or retract your accusations, or show all including God that you spit on any commandment against bearing false witness.
I do owe you an apology as I spoke hastly in a heated moment.
If I remember correctly you have never specifically,"claimed to be "better" than any Christian that runs a food bank, homeless shelter, battered woman's shelter, or pregnant teen shelter."
But when I read statements like you made following the hundreds I have already read after awhile it gets to be too much.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by anglagard, posted 03-14-2009 8:57 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by anglagard, posted 03-17-2009 3:22 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024