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Author Topic:   Are there two Christs in the Bible?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 64 of 109 (504446)
03-28-2009 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jaywill
03-28-2009 9:17 AM


Re: Two Messiahs
Christ is descended from David.
That's an amazingly convincing argument Jay.
However, the Bible is quite clear on the matter.
The Messiah will come from the bloodline of David through Solomon, this negates Jesus.
Unless, of course, you have some additional infomation that the Bible has left out?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jaywill, posted 03-28-2009 9:17 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jaywill, posted 03-28-2009 1:55 PM Brian has replied
 Message 69 by Peg, posted 03-30-2009 2:55 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 66 of 109 (504484)
03-29-2009 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by jaywill
03-28-2009 1:55 PM


Re: Two Messiahs
Why do you say that the Bible says the Messiah must be of the bloodline of Solomon ?
Solomon was the one that built the Temple (God's House), and God says He will establish the throne of his kingdom forever, not the throne of Nathan or anyone else.
Since Jesus did not have an earthly father then He has no bloodline to David through Solomon. Some Christians claim that we also have a bloodline to David through Mary. The Bible never claims to give Mary's bloodline, but even if it did, and even if female bloodlines were recognised (which they aren't), then the geneology claimed for Mary goes back to Nathan, which is no good anyway.
Hence, the Bible proves that Jesus was not the Messiah.
2 Samuel 7:
12 When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by jaywill, posted 03-28-2009 1:55 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by jaywill, posted 03-29-2009 5:36 PM Brian has replied
 Message 70 by Peg, posted 03-30-2009 3:01 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 71 of 109 (504507)
03-30-2009 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by jaywill
03-29-2009 5:36 PM


Re: Two Messiahs
So then when Matthew opens with the words "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham ..." (Matt. 1:1), that is in your opinion, an error ?
How can it be Jesus' geneology when Joseph was not Jesus' father?
There is simply no bloodline from David through Solomon to Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by jaywill, posted 03-29-2009 5:36 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by jaywill, posted 03-30-2009 7:27 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 72 of 109 (504509)
03-30-2009 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Peg
03-30-2009 2:55 AM


Re: Two Messiahs
Where is Solomon in 'Mary's' geneology?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Peg, posted 03-30-2009 2:55 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Peg, posted 03-30-2009 4:02 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 75 of 109 (504516)
03-30-2009 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by jaywill
03-30-2009 7:27 AM


Re: Two Messiahs
It is not as simple as a yes or no answer because there is doubt about the virgin birth scenario.
If you wish to claim that Jesus is His own father then yes it is an error.
If you wish to claim that Joseph is Jesus biological father then the answer would be 'perhaps'.
You would, of course, have to provide proof that we do have accurate geneologies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by jaywill, posted 03-30-2009 7:27 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by jaywill, posted 03-30-2009 12:04 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 76 of 109 (504517)
03-30-2009 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Peg
03-30-2009 4:02 AM


Re: Two Messiahs
Solomn isnt in Mary's line, he shows up in Jospehs line.
And since Joseph was not Jesus' father, unless we rule out the Virgin Birth, then Joseph's line is of no use.
Mary was of the priestly line and Joseph was of the Davidic kingly line.
Apart from Mary's line being of no use, if it is her geneology that is given it goes through Nathan which is equally of no use.
There are a number of lines of evidence that Mary was of the Priestly tribe. She was the daughter of Heli who was of the priestly tribe.
A little problem is that the Bible does not give Mary's geneology does it, and even if it did the bloodline never goes through females.
The Bible itself proves that Jesus was no Messiah.
A nice guy probably, but Messiah, well never in a milion years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Peg, posted 03-30-2009 4:02 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Peg, posted 03-31-2009 1:35 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4949 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 79 of 109 (504563)
03-31-2009 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Peg
03-31-2009 1:35 AM


Re: Two Messiahs
that is not necessarily true for the reason that 'sons in law' were legally viewed as 'sons' of the brides father.
Even if that is true it still doesn't do for Jesus. He has no earthly father, if we accept the Virgin Birth, hence there is no bloodline.
You need to get this Mary thing out of your head as a female's geneology has no bearing on the bloodline.
It still gives Jesus the 'legal' right to take the throne of David.
Apart from the fact that it doesn't, we also have the added problem that Jesus was never crowned King, He simply was not the Messiah. It is difficult to accept that Jesus was the Messiah who would take the 'throne of David' when Jesus died 2000 years ago and was never crowned. A little bit of a problem that.
Why do you say that?
Nathan was a son of David by his wife Bath-sheba.
For the millionth time, the Messiah is to come from the blood of David through SOLOMON, how many times do you need to be told this?
The natural lineage of Messiah is traced, from David through Nathan and his descendants down to Jesus,
Why are you ignoring the prophecy in 2 Samuel, is it too vague for you?
Maybe 1 Chron. 28 is easier for you to understand?
And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.
6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
Forget Nathan, the kingdom to be established is Solomon's, hence Nathan's bloodline is of no use.
via Marys father Heli.
Where does the Bible say that Mary's father was Heli?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Peg, posted 03-31-2009 1:35 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Peg, posted 03-31-2009 4:22 AM Brian has not replied

  
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