Rapture (pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib) ?

kjv revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. and he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.kjv revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.kjv revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;The first fruits 144,000 {rev 7:4} and the church {rev 7:9-14} had already been raptured at the sixth seal chapter 7. kjv Rev chapter 7 and 14 appears about the marriage of the Lamb that the martyred saints are the fullfillment of the marriage {rev 14:16} at the reaping of the earth before the armies of heaven clothed in fine linen and clean follow the him upon white horses {rev 19:14}. The Lord said that he would not drink of the vine until the kingdom come, etc...come eat and drink at my table, etc... Luke 22:16-30.If the Lord will not drink of the vine until the the kingdom come then the Marriage of the Lamb apparently happens in heaven. However {kjv Luke 22:30} says to come and eat and drink at my table makes the marriage feast not happen until the kingdom has come, it appears even the fowl are invited unto the supper of the great God {kjv revelation 19:17}.P.S. I wrote this and lost it and rewrote it hope it makes sense too you. I provided a link so hopefully it helps it makes sense, etc...=================================================================Because the rapture and resurrection IS the marriage of the Lamb which is about to commence. The marriage is the union of the saints with Christ. It can only occur when the bride is complete. That's why the statement is made, "His wife hath made herself ready." The church has been purified and made white through tribulation, now she is ready! [1 Peter 1:7, & 4:12,13]. The marriage supper will not occur in heaven, but on earth at Christ's Kingdom.Luke 22
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves;
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come...
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.http://www.geocities.com/~lasttrumpet/marriage.htmlEdited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

Thanks reversespin,. I think I get a little clearer picture of how you understand these passages.My response will likely take more than one post. But I will intersperse a few questions to see if I am understanding your understanding correctly. I also want to re-examine carefully the study notes in the Recovery Version on some of these matters.At least we will have a good feast of our own in the living and abiding word of God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Reversespin, I comment on your paragraph below: The Bride and Wife in Revelation 19 is a remnant. And the remnant receive the reward to accompany Christ to defeat Antichrist. This Bride you see is a remnant who represents the total Bride which is not completed entirely until after the 1,000 years. The word "righteousnesses" may look like a typo to some, but this is how the translation of the word reads in the RcV. I believe that the KJV should read "righteous deeds of the saints"The word RIGHTEOUSNESSES does not refer to justification by faith as out rightous garment before God. Rather it refers to the righteous behavior, the righteous living, the righteous deeds that issue out of a consecrated life. The defeated believer does have justification by faith as a covering for the gift of eternal redemption. But only the overcomers have produced the RIGHTEOUSNESSES as their preparation for REWARD in the millennial kingdom.Do you understand? The righteous DEEDS rather than the positional righteous STANDING is what prepares the Bride for the reward to accompany Christ at this time. Now it is important to realize that the wedding garment of the bride is also her fighting garment. Compare Rev.19:8 with 19:14 The point here is that what qualifies these believers to be the bride at the wedding feast ALSO qualifies them to be the army of Christ at Armageddon. This is a matter of REWARD to the overcomers. And the total number of believers are not overcomers at this point.Now when we turn to Rev. 17:14 we see a description of the ones who accompany Christ to the final defeat of Antichrist before the millennial kingdom: In this passage there are THREE matters which qualify these saints to accompany Christ to overcome the beast with the Lord of Lords, Jesus.1.) called
2.) chosen
3.) faithfulI would call your attention especially to the third item - FAITHFUL. These ones are not only CALLED. They are not only CALLED and CHOSEN. They themselves have ADDED to these two matters their FAITHFULNESS.Are all the believers faithful? Many times we are not faithful even though we are called and chosen. The overcoming saints have added to the calling of God and the choosing of God the overcoming of FAITHFULNESS. For this faithfulness they are REWARDED both to represent the total bride though they are a remnant. And they are REWARDED to accompany Christ to Armageddon representing the total body of believers.As Gideon's army of 300 represented to entire nation of Isreal in a victorious battle, so these remnant of those faithful ones represent the entire body of Christ's redeemed. Called + Chosen + Faithful = overcoming and receiving the Reward of being the representative bride to the Lamb and the accompanying army to the Lord of lords at Armageddon.This matter of overcoming through our faithfulness and thereby receiving the reward is also revealed in Paul's warning to Timothy: To "reign with Him" we must faithfully fulfill the requirement to endure. We must, by His grace, keep the word of His endurance (Rev. 3:10). If we deny Him He will deny us. In this case the word is to Christian believers who are eternally redeemed. So this denying of the Lord is related to the loss of the reward of the millennial kingdom.If we are faithless (and every denial of the Lord by a Christian is due to a problem with faithfulness) He remains faithful for He cannot deny Himself. I believe this means that the believer is still eternally redeemed, eternally saved, though she or he looses the reward. He has regenerated us and put His life into us. He cannot deny Himself. We are born of God and cannot be UNborn of God.By this post I hope I have made clear that the wife who has made herself ready in chapter 19 has done so by overcoming through her faithfulness. We could be born of God and not be a part of this reward of the bride who has made herself ready. This decision is in the hands of the Lord Jesus at the judgment seat of Christ in the air after the Harvest is raptured and before He descends to the earth. The same is called the judgment seat of God (compare 2 Cor. 5:10 and Romans 14:10)Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Actually it only say righteousness of saints I thought the rewards were in respect to the deeds? kjv rev 22:12 I see it more as having the righteousness of Christ rather than deeds or positional righteous standing.Its like our righteousness is as a filthy rag kjv Isaiah 64:6. Too me its about being found in Christ not about our own righteousness philippians 3:9 and not about works lest any man boast ephesians 2:9, but the righteousness of Christ which is of God by faith. kjv philippians 3:9.It is by grace we are saved through faith and not of ourselves it is the gift of God kjv ephesians 2:8. Its because of the faith of Christ philippians 3:9. It says our robes are made white in the blood of the Lamb. kjv rev 8:14. Its about whosoever believeth in the only begotten Son should not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16. Its about the Faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Salvation is a free gift lest any man should boast. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life john 3:15.kjv philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righeousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:kjv Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. kjv 2 corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

Hi reversespin, I am pre tribulation because: First man raptured. Second man raptured. First man resurrected. Jesus second resurrected.
Then Saints which slept arose and received bodies. Jesus carried up to heaven.But I am also mid tribulation because: The disciples wanted to know when the end would be. The disciples were and still are The Church.They were told when they (The Church) saw the abomination of desolation stand in the Holy Place it was time.This takes place in the middle of Daniels 7 year reign of the AntiChrist. He stands in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God and everyone has to worship him.Then those that remain will have to take the mark of the beast to be able to buy or sell. Times are going to get tough. He will last for 3 1/2 years as dictator of the earth.The Church will not be here during this time.There will be many that are killed because they will not take the mark of the beast.They are the ones under the altar asking how long...They are not a part of the Bride of Christ nor will they ever be. Because they were not found doing what they were supposed to be doing.They are a part of the family of God.I could care less when the rapture takes place. I intend to be ready when Jesus appears in the eastern sky. That means you must be ready at all times.Enjoy

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi,No one knows when their appointed time thus another important reason to be ready at all times. It says we do not know the hour but do we know the season? Like mid-tribulation for the church to be watching for one will be taken and the other left?KJV Matthew 24:31 Is interesting because the Lord himself will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the four winds, form one end of heaven to the other.This is the last trump of God too me the Lord himself blowing the trumpet gathering the elect from the four corners of the earth in agreement with rev 7:1-17 which happens before the seventh seal seven angelic trumpets. My take these are those under the altar are those that had been martryed before the great tribulation even takes place like the apostle Paul.kjv rev 15:2-3 too me are those killed because they would not take the mark of the beast. It doesn't appear to be the same folk as 7:11 but are fellowservants and brethren. Its interesting too me that this after this little season rev 6:11 brings on the wrath of God. kjv rev 6:10 and kjv 15:1Those under the altar are told to rest for a little season until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fullfilled, etc... rev 6:11 kjv. Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

Reverspin, My Cambridge KJV says "righteous deeds" and the English / Greek Interlinear NIV says rigthteous deeds.So I stand by "righteous deeds" or "righteous acts" or "righteousnesses" as the translation. Let me ask you this then. In First Corinthians 3 Paul writes:"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:15)The ones whom Paul says will be saved, yet as through fire, and who suffer loss not receiving a reward - are they not also in possession of Christ as their righteousness?What about the five foolish virgins who return late to the marriage feast? Do they not also have Christ as their righteousness? Then on what bases are they chastized to miss the wedding feast? Do not missunderstand me. Even the rightouesnesses are by faith. That is the kind of faith the believes that Christ lives in us and will act in our acting. Didn't the Lord Jesus say that as branches we must abide in Him and without abiding in Him we can do nothing?So then if all believers have Christ as their righteousness, as I surely believe, then on what bases are there rewards and disciplines to believers?On what bases are there those who overcome in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3? Surely every member of the church by definition has Christ as their rigtheousness. That is true. But chapter 18 of Revelation is not about being saved. It is about being chosen to accompany the Lord Jesus to the marriage feast of the Lamb and to the Battle of Armegeddon.If you already admit that some of the foolish virgins are barred from participation in the marriage feast then you only have two choices of interpretation left:1.) The foolish virgins in Matt. 25 represent unbelievers who never were saved.2.) The foolish virgins are saved believers who become eternally lost and are unsaved in the future.Which position do you take?And if you say that both the wise and the foolish virgins are saved Christians then they BOTH have Christ as their righteousness. So then on what bases are the foolish ones rejected from participation in the marriage feast?The rest of your post reiterates your commitment to justification by faith for all believers. So which position do you believe:You are spreading the matter of justification by faith over an erea where it should not be spread. The issue here with the marriage feast reward and overcoming is not eternal redemption via the gift in grace. It is about qualifying for the reward not qualifying for the gift.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Your KJV is not the authorized version likely the NKJV my authorized KJV says righteousness.NKJV Rev 19:8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.Authorized KJV Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html My take their works were their works not worthy of reward but they are saved by their faith in Christ.KJV Hebrews 9: 14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?I suspect those basing it on their own righteousness will be resurrected in the second resurrection. Their names will be in the book of life thus they will miss the wedding feast. I'm saying the wise virgins will be part of the first resurrection rapture those living that are not wise that washes their robes in the blood of Christ will be part of the martyred souls reaped. If these unwise virgins died before the rapture they will be resurrected at the second resurrection after the 1000 year rule of Christ.KJV - ..., They are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
(Rev. 1: 5; 1 John 1: 7; Heb. 9: 14.)

No, the Cambridge King James Version that I have among other is not second class. It needs neither rebuke or pity. Cambridge Bible Publishers have been putting out the KJV probably since before either one of us was born.You can take it up with Cambridge whether or not their KJV is "Authorized" or not. I have no desire to get into whose KJV is more authorized. It is sufficient to my point that you do have a version which reads "righteous acts".As stated by you below. Am I right? So the New King James and the RcV both see the need to translate that word as plural righteous acts or righteousnesses. As does John Nelson Darby's New Translation.In case you didn't know, Scoffield in putting together the popular Scoffield Reference Bible, incorporated the theological study notes from J.N. Darby in Scoffield Bible. That was very solid Plymouth Brethren Fundamentalist theology.Had it not been for the solid Brethren teachers we probably wouldn't know anything about the Rapture one way or another. I agree. I completely agree.So a Christian may be eternally saved yet be punished, disciplined and lose a reward, when Jesus returns. Am I right?And if I am then perhaps you can see that Christ expects that the Bride would prepare herself with something in ADDITION TO - having Himself as their righteousness. Mainly that is having the righteous ACTS or Righteousnesses which qualify them for REWARD. I agree. How can I not agree.Yet some are saved yet as through fire. They also were cleansed from dead works. Were they not?IF the rapture is spoken to us in terms of warning, saying we should be watchful and ready, WHY then do we not say that there is no need to watch? Afterall our consciences have all been purged by the precious blood from dead works.You are extending verses with apply to eternal redemtion to wrongly cover for matters of dispensational reward and discipline to those who are saved. Is this what you meant to write? Is there any TYPO in this paragraph above? Because as it stands it does not make sense to me.Why would their name being in the book of life cause them to miss the wedding feast? Is that what you meant to write. Did you leave out a word? But in the parable they are arose and went forth to meet the Bridegroom at the same time.The call came that the Bridegroom had arrived and they all got up to meet Him. It does not say that five got up at one time and the other five got up many years latter.Should you not think this intepretation through again?If falling asleep means that they died. Then arising to trim the lamps must mean they are resurrected. Chapter 7 is an insertion. It serves the purpose to show that all the people that are God's will be preserved. Chapter 7 does not mean that the total number of saints will be raptured before the time of the great tribulation. It is an inserted vision with a general purpose. Generally, it shows that God will preserve all of His saints.And the great tribulation mentioned in chapter seven, I think should be understood not as that great tribulation of which we usually speak. It is the tribulation of the total history of mankind on the face of the earth. The whole history of man is a tribulation of great proportions through which God will bring all generations of His people.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I don't believe so, God promised to preserve his Word he does not want his Words tampered with. Too me the authorized kjv is the only version that stands out for this generation as Gods Words.P.S. I'm such a literal person that the Authorized KJV is the version I believe God wanted me to use. I believe you too love the Word lots of Great Christians use other bible versions but just pray you understand and have a bit of mercy on those KJV believers that tend to take the Word literally. You tend to see the big picture and I'm getting a bit to nit picking but its been fun seeing the big picture from your perspective.God Bless,Bill ==================================================================Scripture Preservation
Are the Scriptures just the "ideas" of God, or are they the very WORDS of God? You decide!God promises to preserve His words. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7)
You shall not add or take away, says God. Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
(Deuteronomy 4:1-2)
God cares about every one of His words. Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:5-6)
God's words will never pass away. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)
God will curse those who change His Word. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)Chick.com: Are the Scriptures just the IDEAS of God, or are they His very WORDS? You decide!Quote:
So by which criteria is the KJV deemed inerrant and all other Bibles errant?Here's some criteria why only one bible version over time has not been compromised.Enjoy !!!!!!------------------------------------------------------NKJV counterfeithttp://www.av1611.org/nkjv.htmlBIBLE WORDS REMOVED
by Terry Watkinshttp://www.av1611.org/biblewrd.htmlBIBLE VERSES REMOVED
by Terry Watkins
". . .man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God." Luke 4:4http://www.av1611.org/biblevs.htmlBIBLE VERSION COMPARISON
by Terry Watkins
". . .ye have perverted the words of the living God. . ." Jeremiah 23:36http://www.av1611.org/voice1.htmlShocker! Bible Scholar Loses Voice on the John Ankerberg TV Showhttp://www.av1611.org/voice1.html"And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak,... because thou believest not my words,..."Luke 1:20http://www.av1611.org/voice2.html------------------------------------------------------------------- If your Bible is a King James Bible, it preserves God's words because it was translated using "formal equivalence." All other Bibles were translated using "dynamic equivalence," in which the translator is free to change words as long as he conveys the "idea."Chick.com: Are the Scriptures just the IDEAS of God, or are they His very WORDS? You decide! I agree actually that this is not just the great tribulation of which we usually speak.I just see if those not ready are not raptured it does not mean they are not going to be saved but it does not mean they will be saved. Is their name in the book of life at the second resurrection Judgement.In some ways those martryed are lucky in that the second death has no power over them because they washed their robes in the blood of Christ. It appears to me they are saved by the righteousness of Christ even though they missed out on the reward, suffer loss, yet still be saved. It might be like someone that goes to church believes in God but also likes to go out with the guys having a beer so has one foot in the world and one foot in church. I think its these kind of things that some will be saved in the second resurrection but miss out on the first resurrection. They will be like the unwise virgins over time that died before the great tribulation so they will have to stand before the Great White Throne judgment.The wise virgins over time that died washed in the Blood of Christ thus are part of the raptured church. The only unwise virgins part of the first resurrection are those that washed their robes in the Blood of Christ during the Great Tribulation they missed out on the rapture but don't miss out on the first resurrection.The rest of the unwise virgins fate will be decided at the second resurrection The Great White Throne Judgment, not all will be part of the first resurrection, etc...At the Great white throne judgement their names will be in the book of life those not in the book of life will suffer the second death.The martryed saints left behind but reaped in the first resurrection would not be part of those standing before the Great White Throne second resurrection judgment because during the great tribulation they washed their robes in the Blood of Christ thus become part of the first resurrection and the second death has no power over them.I too would like to think my righteousness is not as filthy rag but also feel that Jesus desires to wash us its like a renewing of the mind in Christ. Its like you said he is the vine and were the branches, its about abiding in Christ, etc...I think were agreeing on some points and only disagreeing more in part due to the wording of the kjv verses the nkjv, and other versions.
Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

I will return to the matter of the 144,000 Firstfruits on Mt Zion in chapter 14 being different from the 144,000 sealed from the twelve tribes of Israel.The group in chapter 14 are actually in contrast to the group in chapter 7.1.) The 144,000 in 7:4 were selected from "every tribe of the sons of Israel". But the group in chapter 14 is "purchased from the earth" and "purchased from among men".2.) The ones marked out in chapter 7 are marked "by the seal of the living God" (v.2). But those selected in chapter 14 have the name of the Lamb and the name of His Father written in their foreheads (v.1).This writing corresponds to the promise to the overcomers in the church in Philadelphia that Christ would write on them the name of His God (3:12). Therefore the 144,000 in chapter 14 are definitely taken from the church.3.) Another contrast between the two groups is that the multitude in 7:3 are "slaves" of God, while the ones in chapter 14 are sons of God as implied by the name Father. God is revealed in Revelation as the Father in relation to the church - (1:6; 2:27; 3:5,21).4.) The group in chapter 7 are related to Christ as the Angel (7:2) as in [b](Gen.22:11-12). But the group in chapter 14 are related to Christ as the Lamb (v.4), which is the title of Christ in His redemption.The Jews will not accept Jesus as "the Lamb" prior to seeing Him in glory (Zech.12:7-12; Matt.24:30).5.) Revelation tells us that the firstfruits in chapter 14 are "virgins". To the disciples of the Lord Jesus virginity is a gift (Matt.19:12; 2 Cor. 11:2). By contrast, to be a virgin among the Isaelites was a curse, whereas to marry and bear children was a blessing (Exo. 23:25; Deut. 7:14; Judges 11:38; 1 Sam. 2:5; Psa. 113:9).The two groups are therefore not the same in nature. The 144,000 on Mt Zion in chapter 14 are definitely New Testament believers.The standard argument debates that the 144,000 in chapter 7 are Jews who are saved after the beginning of the great tribulation. And the thrust of this argument is usually that it proves that the church is no longer on earth at that time and that these Jews are the primary witnesses on the earth in absence of the church.Of course individual Jews can become believers in Christ at any time. But as a national collective the Jews will not turn to Christ until the very end of that time when He comes in glory. Then they repent and mourn over this forsaken Son of God their Messiah.Secondly, the group in chapter 14 are not on the earth at all but thier voices are heard coming out of heaven. So they are on a heavenly Mt. Zion. That excludes the Jews being a witnessesing group on the earth. And according to the chronology of events from 14:6 to 16:21, the description in 14:1-5 is that of a situation at the beginning of the great tribulation. Is the Lamb of God Christ standing on the Mt. Zion in Israel at the beginning of the great tribulation? No, He is not. He does not come down to stand upon the earth until chapter 19.These facts make it necessary to reject the interpretation that the 144,000 in chapter 14 are a body of witnessesing Jews from the twelve tribes on the earth at that time.Have to go now.

The Authorized kjv chapter 14:1 says only his Fathers name written upon their foreheads. Suspect the name of the Lamb was added by the translators to make it appear they were two different groups.AKJV rev 14:1 And I looked, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. It does not say "slaves" in my bible version it says "servants" and it does not say the name of the Lamb. I just don't see a problem but hear you Akjv rev 22:4 but leaning it has to due that the LORD is God!AKJV rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.AKJV rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the "Lord God" of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.====================================================================Gail Riplinger New Age Bible VersionsError 404 (Not Found)!!1Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

You quoted a translation which read '"righteous acts".
"Righteousnesses" in the Recovery Version is what I trust and go by.I don't know a lot about how many unauthorized and authorized King James Vesions there are. I have been reading the Bible for over 38 years and have read if not entirely partially many English translations. I have no feeling whatsoever to exalt the "Authorized" King James Version above the rest as you do.I think you can get into teaching the traditions of men as the will of God, and that is undesireable. Claiming that the "Authorized" King James Bible is the ONLY reliable English translation of the New Testament is just the religious tradition of some men.Most of the English translations have their strengths in one place and their weaknesses in others. There are English versions I definitely prefer to others. But I do not exalt them as the sole and only means by which the Holy Spirit could lead people into the truth.I recommmend to anyone the Recovery Version and plan to use it for the rest of my life. But I freely consult 1901 American Standard, Darby, KJV, Emphasized, Amplified, Concordant, Greek ENglish Interlinear, Weymouth or other English translations when I wish to see how other translators have dealt with a problematic text. That is wonderful that you feel God wants you to use KJV. There is no question in my being that I have a similiar sense about the Recovery Version The Holy Bible Recovery Version.For me it is crucial that we see the big picture. To me it is a matter of spiritual and practical survival in these last days, that we have an overview of God's eternal purpose.One thing which is important to see is the distinction between gift and reward in God's economy.Romans 5:10 says For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life,having been reconciled.This passage shows that there is a judicial side and a life side to God's full salvation. Or we may say a legal side - "reconciled to God through the death of His Son" and an "organic" side "much more we will be saved in His life".Through the death of Christ the believers are placed into a status in which they are no longer enemies of God. They are reconciled by His death. But there is a "much more" to experience after having been reconciled. Much more then we must be saved in the realm of His life. That means His life must grow and mature within us.We must go on from the judicial reconciliation to the much more saving in the life of Christ. We are in a position as believers, to be no longer the enemies of God. We are now in the position of being reconciled. We must now "much more" be saved organically, in a life way, in our entire personalities by abiding and remainin in the sphere and realm of Christ's life.Too often we neglect the "much more" salvation by and through the dispensing of Christ's life into our being.The passage under questions reveals that before the millennium the Bride has prepared herself by allowing the "much more" salvation in Christ's life to produce within her righteous deeds, righteous acts, reighteousnesses. And it is these acts coming out sponataenously of a life filled with Christ, that qualifies a remnant of believers to receive the reward.We have Christ as our righteousness. But in preparation for His coming we need the "much more" salvation by being filled with His life. And because we are filled with His life, our acts manifest Christ. Our deeds will then manifest Christ. These prepare us for the wedding feast. And it is foolish if we neglect this.Who neglects this "much more" aspect of full salvtion? Many believers who believe that it is only necessary that we be justified by the death of Christ. They assume that they may continued to live any way they wish because they have their "ticket" already.Well they are only partially right. They will bever perish. They have the gift of the eternal life. They will be there in the new heaven and new earth after the 1,000 years millennial kingdom. But where are they in regard to the reward of the millennial kingdom?The righteousnesses of the saints as a preparation for the wedding feast is crucial. So you will see me stand firmly with the clarity of the translation which reveals this truth. The rightoeus deeds, the righteous acts, the righteousnesses of the saints is their qualification to enjoy the reward of the wedding feast and the battle of Armageddon. I have been looking for this verse. I learned it a long time ago and believe it.However, I would not use this passage to prove that only the "Authorized" King James can be trusted to convey God's word to us. For one, not everyone in the world speaks English !Shall we tell the Chinese, Russians, the French, the Spanish, the African, the Norwegian, the Swedish, the Indian, etc. etc. that they all must learn to speak the king's English because it is only in the "Authorized KIng James Bible" God's revelation to man has been preserved? That is wonderful that we have such a reverance concerning His word. But it is a mistake to derive from this that only in the KIng James English translation which is "Authorized" mankind may have the only preserved form of God's word.Did Peter and Paul have the Authorized King James Bible?You get a good translation and you pray and look to God. You also derive help from fellowship with other members of the Lord's Body. And you derive help from scholarship.I do not read or write ancient Hebrew or Greek. Neither will I follow blindly anyone who does simply because they do. But I will derive help from the fellowship of those who have gone before to deal with problematic or questionable texts. Hopefully such helpers not only have head knowledge but personal experience with God.The Recovery Version is not only a great translation but the depth of experience of Christ lies behind the work, outlines, footnotes, and study notes of the version.King James Version is good also. I think the Recovery Version is better. I think that there is a word beyond the Greek and the Hebrew. That is the word of God.Have to discontinue for now.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Hi, jaywill! So....do you belong to the church that Witness Lee and Watchman Nee founded?

Reversspin, I am rather certain that this is not true.It is not true that only KJV uses a philosophy of "formal equivalance" and all other translations use "dynamic equivalance".The Revised Standard had a reputation of being somewhat looser in translation. However the 1901 American Standard had the opposite reputation of being "wooden". In other words, so commited to the original words as to often NOT make good English sound.They sacrificed the smooth sounding English for the sake of closeness to the original language meanings. I would take the 1901 American Standard Bible over the KJV with absolutely no qualms, and in fact do prefer. I was told of the reputation of the 1901 American Standard in this regard by a Greek and Hebrew translator and author of a Greek textbook - "The Language of the New Testament."Also at Amazon.com there is a review of the Recovery Version by an outsider to the Living Stream Publisher (the translators of the RcV). This was an objective third party review. And this reveiwer did mention that the RcV did not use "dynamic equivalance".I don't know a great deal about dynamic or formal equivalance. But know a "wooden" translation from a paraphrase. And I don't believe that ONLY KJV had a commitment to a close formal translation, preserving as best as possible the original wording.In fact, we could well open up another discussion in which I could show you many passages which I think are better translated in the Recovery Version than are in your KJV. But I would not be speaking as an language expert. Still, I think I could show you passages superior in thier translation in Recovery Version than in your KIng James Version. (On another dicsussion and in another more concerned with those issues).But your bias that ONLY KIng James' scholars cared or were close to God in their translating work I have to reject as a kind of superstitious prejudice.Sorry to say this. But you keep pressing the matter.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.