Old Laws Still Valid?

But none of those are related in anyway to Jesus death but rather to his life, his teachings.Jesus as Blood Sacrifice is a simple, dramatic story that was vivid, fast, and frankly, a good marketing tactic for Paul. Paul was one great spinmeister and showed that time after time. He would have been very comfortable in todays 30 second spot media world.The idea though of the Sacrifice being GOD becoming Man, just man, is more complex though and one that is more difficult to explain. It is one that cannot be sold through sound bites, and instead needs time for reason and contemplation.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

For GOD to become man, just a man, not divine, not supernatural, is IMHO the great sacrifice.Man will die. When GOD became man in the person of Jesus he was sure to die. The sacrifice was not Jesus death, after all, two others were crucified the same time as Jesus and the same place and literally hundreds of others were likely crucified at the same time all over the Roman Empire.BUT...for GOD to become man, just man, human, messing his diapers, needing potty training, having to learn to walk, to talk, simply to stand, to know hot and cold, hunger and pain, joys and sorrows, to do all that just to set and example, to teach us, to show by example that that death is not final, THAT is the supreme sacrifice.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

IMHO the difference is one of time. Before the Annunciation, Jesus was likely God.After his birth he was but Human, totally, completely.After his Ascension He was God.BUT, while he was alive here on earth, he might well have believed in the resurrection and ascension, but like any other human he could not KNOW.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I disagree.I would say that regardless of what is in Roman 7, the things you mentioned: are NOT related to Jesus death but rather his life. You said specifically "Christ has a better way for people to live:".Christ has a better way for people to live.The lessons were in how Jesus lived, what Jesus taught us, not get yourself crucified.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But what example do we follow? What is it about Christ's death that ties it to how we behave?Christianity is about living. But what type life should we live? Isn't it the life that Jesus lived? Why did he spend all those years as a teacher? If it is his death, then why not just get born, get crucified, job done and back to the BBQ?The reason I am belaboring this point is that IMHO all too often the lessons of Jesus Life get ignored by those proclaiming to be Christians. I believe that the message was that we, individually, are responsible for our behavior.We are expected to try to do what is right, to try NOT to do what is wrong and, when we fail, we are to honestly evaluate our lives, acknowledge those failings and try to do better in the future.We are not simply to try to live to some laws, but rather to what is moral, what is right.These are lessons from his life. Even if he had lived to old age and died smiling in bed, those lessons would still be the goal.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm not sure why we seem to be apart on this because I agree with so much of what you say. For example: I agree totally with that. Okay, if that is YOUR source. I would say that Jesus' death was but another lesson, a inevitable consequence of being born and it is the totality of His life, teachings, death, resurrection and ascension that is what empowers me in my efforts.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What in the world does any of that stuff have to do with the thread or topic?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So stoning folk that work on the Sabbath is okay.Tell me, can I just do it on my own or should I call all the neighbors over?Should we have a BBQ at the event and if so, who should pay for it?Our church recently held a football game and during half time the Priest held a service. Many of the people taking communion, including the Priest were unclean since they handled the football. What actions should we take?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Nice jabberwocky but you did not answer any of my questions.One problem is that all too often Christians simply spout platitudes. Unfortunately, that also means they stop thinking at that point and don't even realize that the platitude is simply spin with no real meaning.Thus we get stuff like "God's Law is perfect", or "It's much better to allow God to write His laws on our hearts so that we do His will by nature rather than by duty."What the hell does that mean? Write Laws on ones heart? Better to do His will by nature rather than duty?Those are just buzz phrases, designed to sound important but really having no meaning whatsoever other than allowing someone to think they have come across an answer.Edited by jar, : and---> an

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yet more platitudes designed to stop thinking. Now you proclaim that I am not "Born Again". Another jabberwocky.That is what is so wrong with so much of Christianity, all that exists is some shell of platitudes with no substance, no reason, no value, no worth.Instead of actually answering questions, all you and so many Christians seem able to do is to retreat into the realm of glib catch phrases and quotemining.It is as though a requirement of Christianity was to check the brains at the door.Christianity is NOT the Bible. It is not quotemining. It is not the glib parody that is the Hallmark of the Televangelist.The Devil quotes scripture.Christianity is action, doing.Christianity is helping someone reach the package on the high shelf.Christianity is kneeling down to talk to kids so you are at their eye level.Christianity is a smile and a wave when the man picks up the trash.Christianity is opening doors for folk and helping unload their shopping cart and taking the shopping carts back to the collection area.Christianity is trying to do what is right, trying not to do what is wrong, honestly looking at your performance and when you fail, admitting it and trying to do better next time.Christianity is NOT words, it is doing.Edited by jar, : more appalin spallin

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

More nonsense platitudes. Offended? Only that so many Christians seem to have NO clue what Christianity is all about and so allow empty slogans to replace what Jesus taught. More crap. Christianity is NOT Christ living it or Christ doing it, it is YOU doing what needs to be done.Throw the platitudes away. Yup, finally. It is you doing.Throw the platitudes away.Christianity is YOU doing it.It is the little things.It is the unseen things.It is the unimportant things.It is just trying to do what is right.It is not throwing out empty quotes taken out of context. It is not the empty patter of the Televangelist or the brain dead Christian apologist.It is just doing.It really is that simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

All we can do is try.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Huh? More platitudes and empty worthless rhetoric. We don't. Only they know.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Blah, blah, blah, blah.All anyone can do is try. It is the little things we can do that count. Because that is about all most of us get to do. Life is pretty much a series of unimportant events. We live day by day trying to do what is right at each step. Not just unimportant, absurd, useless and ridiculous. What does that have to do with the thread? Why are you running off into totally off topic nonsense yet again?Glad I didn't reject Christianity anyway.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No one can do the work of Christ. Sorry but trying to do the work of Christ is just more nonsense.The topic is "Old Laws Still Valid?"Pointless platitudes like "doing the work of Christ" have nothing to do with the topic beyond being simply meaningless bombast.If we look at the Laws as laid out in the Bible what we find is that most are simply outdated. Most really are no longer valid.The idea of stoning someone for working on the Sabbath was even shown to be foolish by no less than Jesus.Fortunately, morals are relative and are the product of learning. As people learn more they constantly change what is considered moral with the record historically that the trend has been towards a morality that moves closer to the Golden Rule.Laws on the other hand have little to do with morality and nothing to do with Justice.Laws are arbitrary and unrelated to the actual conditions of a given incident. Laws need to be constantly reviewed and where possible abolished.When it comes to the Laws found in the Bible, most of them have been tossed aside Thank God. It is no longer legal to have slaves in most of the world, no longer legal to stone someone for working on the Sabbath, no longer illegal to grow two crops in a field or to eat shrimp. Beg pardon?And please, try to stop misrepresenting what I post by quotemining out of context.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion