Old Laws Still Valid?

Why is the human spirit regenerated? It is because of Christ as righteousness. We are regenerated because we receive Christ as our righteousness."But if Christ is in you ... the spirit is life because of righteousness" (Rom. 8:10)Christ as righteousness will not fade. He is righteousness forever. He will not become unrighteousness. The human spirit is regenerated and becomes life because of righteousness. And that righteousness is Christ Himself.The human spirit is regenerated and born of God because of Christ as righteousness.The believer's behavior will thereafter effect her or his growth in that life. It will not effect the birth of the life within them.Perhaps those still clinging to a salvation of works dress such a belief in saying we have to be reborn every moment. Perhaps they mean you have to turn over a new leaf many times.But regeneration is not turning over a new leaf. And it is not deciding to do better by golly next time. It is being reborn in your spirit because of Christ as righteousness which you receive:" ... the spirit is life because of righteousness"

jaywill,You say you are born again. I am sure that those who make this claim have at times lost their salvation. It is not proper to make the idea of being born again a free ticket into heaven. It is just as easily a sure ride to hell. He who knows the will of God and still rejects it is more of a sinner than he who has not been born again. Your salvation is still such that it must be worked out from day to day and moment to moment.

The dispensational reward in the kingdom can be lost. The talent can be lost and given to another. The gift of the new birth is irrevocable.It is ironic. Some trying not to make the evangelical mistake of making the born again experience everything, do the same thing in another way.So every passage on the Christian life they relate to the born again experience. How else would they come up with a belief that the new birth could be unborn out of a person? They apply some other verse to the new birth. In trying to escape over doing "born again" they fall into the same mistake in another way.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I fully agree with you that salvation is moment by moment in the sense of the daily walk in the Spirit of Christ.But that is another matter. I need a salvation from my temper? Yes. I need a salvation from jealousy, from lust, from depression, from foolishness? Yes, Yes, yes.The word salvation has different conotations in the Bible. And I completely agree with you that I need to "work out [my own salvation] with fear and trembling" as Paul says in Philippians.But that is not being reborn and reborn and reborn and reborn again and again. No.That is growing once one has BEEN reborn.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

What is it to be born again?It is to receive another life within you in addition to the life you were born with.To be born again is to have Someone BORN in you. That is Christ. You were born with the natural life that you received from your mother and father. You are born again with a spiritual life from Someone Who is alive and lives and is able to enter into your being."The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)Christ, became a life giving Spirit. He transfigured Himself into a form in which He can give divine life into your being. When Christ comes into you the life giving Spirit comes into you and gives you life. That is the ZOE life of God - the divine and uncreated eternal life of the God-man Jesus. So this is why in our limited language we say "Let Jesus into your heart." We mean let the life giving Spirit that He became into the kernel and the innermost part of your whole being.Then once the life giving Spirit come into you "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)The innermost kernel of a man or woman - the human spirit, becomes united with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the life giving Spirit that the last Adam became. In short the human spirit becomes mingled and blended with the life giving Holy Spirit.The Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17). Because the Lord Jesus, the last Adam, became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45)This is not all that can be said about this. Jesus brought the man Jesus of Nazareth, into the eternal Spirit of God. And the eternal Spirit of God then became the life giving Spirit.The first instance of Him giving life is when He gives life in the born again experience. He gives life and the believers is born because of the life that He gives. Which life is Himself.It is marvelous.

A good website on REGENERATION: Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regenerationIncluding these topics: Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regeneration

Pure and simple, being "born again" means receiving the gift of God's Spirit that God gives to His "born again" children.Jesus declares this in John 14:15-17,"If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."You are right. The "New Covenant" isn't a secret society, but it's certainly not a re-statement of the Old Covenant."Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." (2 Cor 5:17)Being a new creature in Christ was never a part of the Old Covenant, but it is available to the whosoever wills of John 3:16.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Since we only have a few posts before Witching Hour is there any chance anyone will try to address the topic, "Old Laws Still Valid?"Way back in Message 96 I posted a list of Old Laws that are no longer valid. Do you think anyone will try to support why they should still be valid?If not, then the answer seems to be "No, the Old Laws are not still valid."All this stuff about Born Again and regeneration (something lizards and frogs do) is cute but irrelevant so how about the Topic?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No, nevermind I don't want to further the topic deviancy here.Old Laws are not valid, unless you are an orthodox Jew, and even then not all are valid.We have seen several explanations of why they are not valid.No one has mentioned whether christianity used Jesus to escape the rigors of the Law. It seems obvious that the Old Law was abandoned very shortly after Jesus lived, perhaps sooner by his disciples. I do not see any correlation between the burden of keeping the Law and the use of the New Testament to 'get off easy'.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

It seems that you very much want me to make an argument that you have ammunition for. Why are you pointing words into my mouth?The law that the reborn person lives by is called "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". Every life has a law. The law of the peach tree is to bear peaches. The law of the cat is to catch mice. Just an analogy.When Christ is born into a person they are enabled by cooperation to live by the law of His life. This law of life is the spontaneous empowering to live righteously. The law of life deepens as the believers grows.I have said nothing about getting off easy. I have said very little about getting out of hell. Your responses to me are reactions to my posts which seem to be seeking familiar arguments to refute.Romans 8:1,2 says "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, for the law of the Spirit of has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death"Some versions say "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".With His life comes a law. It is the law of His life. He blends with you and His life empowers you and enables you. That is why to His disciples He says "Abide in Me and I in you"Now please notice. In verse 1 "no condemnation" does not refer to the condemnation of hell. It refers to the self condemnation of the previous chapter 7. The man trying to live up to the law of God sees another law of sin in his members captivating him to do what he does not wish.Because of this Paul says "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)Now in chapter 8 he says "There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus ....". The condemnation in this particular instance is self condemnation. It is the condemnation of the good minded person feeling wretched because he cannot overcome the sin nature.What can over come this nature? The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. That law of Christ's life. The law of the indwelling life of Jesus is the power to live in the realm of God and unto God.The law of His life is the new covenant law. Then Paul continues to explain:"That the righteous requirement of the law ight be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." (8:4)He means the regenerated human spirit where Christ has been born into the man.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I think it is related to the topic. Why? Because what IS valid in the new covenant is ralated.For me the question is not "What can we get away with?" It is what replaces living under the law of Moses?It is not an adaquate answer to simply say "No. the laws of Moses are no longer valid. Period." That is a distortion of the issue. Is that what you are looking for just as simple Yes the Are Valid or No they are NOT valid? Is that all you care about?My concern is "IN what way are they valid? And in what way are they not?" It is a fine matter. It is a matter which should be considered in depth.The life of the rebirth installs a priniciple within man which is a law. It is like the law of gravity. IT works every time if you know how to use it.The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is the validity needed for the new covenant age.I care about that. Perhaps you don't care about that. But I care about that. I don't want to just leave it at "No. We're Free from the law of Moses." I don't want to give you that strawman to easily knock down, especially when it is not really an indepth analysis of the new covenant.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Fine if it had any relevance to the topic. In case you have forgotten the topic is "Old Laws Still Valid?"Are the Old Laws still valid?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

A basic problem with people is that they want the Bible to be about stuff. And the Bible is about a Person.They very much want the Bible just to be about stuff, things, non living stuff, doctrines, practices.The Bible is about a living Person. From Genesis to Revelation it is about a living Person.When we come close to the living Person many yawn, many turn away, many say "That's beside the point", many say "That's not relevant."Because they want the Bible to be about stuff, non living things. They want the Bible to not be about God coming to me, getting into me, living in me. They want a Bible which is dead and about dead things.I too fall into this error at times. But the Bible is a focused on a Living Person. Birth is about life. Rebirth is about a living Person. Even the law is a kind of photograph of this living Person.In the Old Testament you had the photo. In the New Testament this living Person comes to live within and innact the law of His life.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

As the Bible answers that question it is always related to the Life of Christ.The law of Moses is contrasted with the Spirit of a living Person Christ.I am not stretching the matter. The law of Moses is juxtaposed against the indwelling life of Christ as the Spirit.See Galatians. See Hebrews. See John's Gospel: You see? The law was given. In contrast to that GRACE came with Jesus. When Jesus came grace came. The given law is juxtaposed against the coming of a Person. Grace Came.The law was given. In contrast in the new covenant age a living Person Christ CAME. And in Him GRACE came.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

far be it from me to know what love thy nieghbor as yourself means..IMO, the old laws only count if they discriminate aganst people or perpetulate hate toward people who disagree with a book that hasn't had validity in 1800 yearsthats all i've seen from most people who believe the laws count from a people who havn't followed all of them in nearly 1400 yearsor do people still stone others in israel for adultery?