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Member (Idle past 1395 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What is the evolutionary advantage to religion? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1395 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
well the point was that you only (mentioned \ singled out} one when the tango needs both ... and I think sexism is older than religion. heck it's as old as sex. (not that sex ever gets old ...)
and I would agree that most religions are sexist, but I don't see where that could lead to any added evolutionary benefit.
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PerfectDeath Inactive Member |
like i have ranted... at least i thing i ranted it... Humans evolved on the african savana were we were being eaten by almost everything... because of that our niche that we held was not very stable so a small change could whipe out our species... hell they almost did die. now when you look at a herd of Elk there is one male and a bunch of females, these females were attracted to this one male so this alpha-male's genes will go onto the next generation... a lot of his genes... but this is only because the Elk has a hold of a stable niche so they don't wave to wory much about change.
so to connect this to humans, because our niche is unstable the only way we could survive is to have a diverse gene pool. Now the females of our species are attracted to certain kinds of genes and not others so these undesirable genes will not be able to go on... but they have. this is because, like i said before, males are dominant and aggressive and try to find ways to control the females to they can pass their genes on... that is where sexism came from. males, trying to pass their genes on but they are unable to because they posess "undisired genes", had to find a way to pass them on so they developed sexism... i know this may sound mean but hey i don't consider our species to be all nice and friendly. this ties to religion because some religions have formed ways to "control" females. so i hope that answered your question... i coulda swore i typed this out... like 3 or 5 times.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1395 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
you've had bits and pieces of it, but not all together like that.
sexism gives more males the ability to reproduce so their entrenchment of it into a cultural mechanism (religion) ensures greater availbility of reproduction? I would think entrenchment of marriage {1-husband and 1-wife} would tend to do that as well, for both sexes. certainly all the early religions were focused on fertility.
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You are now just engaging in what every new generation of Christians (or any other religion) does. "Those people who called themselves Christians in the past? The ones who did things or held views that were considered quite normal and justified back then but we now consider racist, sexist, or otherwise offesnsive and oppressive? They were not true Christians." Well, phat, that is just you trying to distance yourself from the realities of your own religious history. The KKK is a Christian white supremacist group that once counted it's US membership in the multi-millions back in the 1920's. It was a mainstream organization because it was normal to hate jews, blacks, Roman Catholics, and immigrants. Two US presidents, Harry Truman and Warren Harding were closely tied with the Klan. Now, you may now say that these people were not Christian, but the point is that, in their minds, they were. All of those millions of people who were members, and the many millions more who supported those views considered themselves good, Christian people supporting Christian values. Why is it then so unreasonable to think that Hitler and the Nazis didn't fully believe that they were good Christians, doing God's work? They were all "true" Christians, phat. It's just that the definition of what you consider a "good" Christian has changed along with the greater societal norms. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-03-2005 07:38 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You know, I was watching C-Span a little while back when the man who was challenging the constitutionality of the phrase "under God" that was added to the pledge to the flag. He happened to be an Atheist. I bring this up because of your implication that Christians will be persecuted for their "humanist hindering" doctrines. Well, there was of course a call-in part to the show, and you should have heard the virulent, persecutorial hate pouring out onto this man from all of those good Christians. They told him that if he didn't like Christianity, he should get out of America. They told him that, as an Athiest, he didn't have the right to speak in America. They told him that he was going to burn in hell. Now, tell me who is the persecuted class here? My signature is more apt today than ever. "History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."--Thomas Jefferson
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Phat Member Posts: 18248 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Schraf writes:
You are now just engaging in what every new generation of Christians (or any other religion) does. "Those people who called themselves Christians in the past? The ones who did things or held views that were considered quite normal and justified back then but we now consider racist, sexist, or otherwise offesnsive and oppressive? They were not true Christians." Well, phat, that is just you trying to distance yourself from the realities of your own religious history.Not at all. I am aware that humans always have been and will be imperfect. The KKK is a Christian white supremacist group that once counted it's US membership in the multi-millions back in the 1920's. It was a mainstream organization because it was normal to hate jews, blacks, Roman Catholics, and immigrants. Two US presidents, Harry Truman and Warren Harding were closely tied with the Klan. Now, you may now say that these people were not Christian, but the point is that, in their minds, they were. And I am saying that there is a reality beyond our minds. This truth is not relative! All of those millions of people who were members, and the many millions more who supported those views considered themselves good, Christian people supporting Christian values. Why is it then so unreasonable to think that Hitler and the Nazis didn't fully believe that they were good Christians, doing God's work?
Anyone in tune with the Spirit can plainly see why.
They were all "true" Christians, phat. According to your relative view? It's just that the definition of what you consider a "good" Christian has changed along with the greater societal norms.Absolute Truth supercedes societal norms.
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: If you control the female, you control who impregnates her, and therefore who's genes get passed on. Thus, the harem. ...and the double standard regarding promiscuity. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-03-2005 07:57 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18248 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Schraf writes: Yes. Sadly, many who profess Christianity are worse than unbelievers. I could chalk it up to an attack of spiritual warfare, which I will, but I also am not defending anything about organized religion and America. If Jesus were here today, in the flesh, He would NOT be an American.
Well, there was of course a call-in part to the show, and you should have heard the virulent, persecutorial hate pouring out onto this man from all of those good Christians. They told him that if he didn't like Christianity, he should get out of America. They told him that, as an Athiest, he didn't have the right to speak in America. They told him that he was going to burn in hell.
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have to be "in tune" with the spirit.
So, you have special, insider knowledge that nobody else has and this gives you the special ability to judge who is a "true" Christian or not. That is SUCH a copout, phat. That's exactly what all Christians say when trying to distance themselves from the more unsavory aspects of Christianity's history say.
quote: How so? Please explain what an "Ultimate Truth" is, and how it supercedes societal norms.
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nator Member (Idle past 2160 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Worse than unbelievers? Since when do unbelievers go out of their way to gang up on believers and tell them they should get out of the country, or they have no right to speak? Where do you hear about Athiest groups trying to stop believers from doing anything, as long as it doesn't infringe upon others' rights?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4949 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
If Jesus were here today, in the flesh, He would NOT be an American. I am sure that there would be many American Christians who could 'prove' that he was an American!
Yes. Sadly, many who profess Christianity are worse than unbelievers. That is outrageous Phat. How can you generalise like this? You imply that anyone who doesn't believe in Christ is some sort of demon. Brian.
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Phat Member Posts: 18248 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Please explain what an "Ultimate Truth" is, and how it supercedes societal norms. How can I explain God? You will just say that He is a product of my imagination. Perhaps you feel that everything that we imagine or choose to imagine defines our belief. If an atheist does not "choose" to imagine God..then...POOF...there is no God! There are things that exist outside of your imagination. Outside of your comprehension. You would prefer to let in only that which is comforting and challenging to you. You have rejected religion, in part, because of the way that it has been perceived by you.
this gives you the special ability to judge who is a "true" Christian or not. This what? What is "it" ?
That's exactly what all Christians say when trying to distance themselves from the more unsavory aspects of Christianity's history say. Not at all. We are trying to distance our Spirituality...the living Spirit...from human foible and mistakes. We ourselves are no better than you or anyone else. From your perspective, however, our God is but a product of our minds. So I cannot explain or prove anything to you.
quote: How so? Because God exceeds humanity. Please explain what an "Ultimate Truth" is, and how it supercedes societal norms. Again, I can only show you myself. I can not show you God. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-03-2005 06:35 AM
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Phat Member Posts: 18248 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Brian writes: No. But I am suggesting that a believer should be taken seriously. It is our God who raises the standard. Just as you may see children as absolved of certain responsibilities because of their age, I see unbelievers as absolved of responsibility as well. When I say that anyone who professes belief in an absolute greater than humanity and then abuses this belief by belittling others is worse...I mean worse. They profess belief in a greater standard. They are worse by spitting on their own standard. You imply that anyone who doesn't believe in Christ is some sort of demon. My view maintains that God exists, and is a higher absolute than human wisdom.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1395 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
you have been told of another thread where this discussion IS the topic of the thread
http://EvC Forum: What is a True Christian? -->EvC Forum: What is a True Christian? go there and sin no more on this page ...
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1395 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
you have been told of another thread where this discussion IS the topic of the thread
http://EvC Forum: What is a True Christian? -->EvC Forum: What is a True Christian? go there and sin no more on this page ...
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