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Author | Topic: Mankind and dinosaur side by side ? ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
"You just said that most animals are afraid of humans. Dinosaurs would have to be hunting humans already before people would begin actively avoiding them. It seems that both of your replies are contradictory. Also humans would have had to come down from their hideouts to gather food and move across the continent."
Yeah, you're right, I did sort of contradict myself. However, it seems to me that EITHER dinasaurs were bloodthirsty, thus humans stayed away, OR dinasaurs were not bloodthirsty, thus humans did not have to worry about such things. Also, I must reemphasize that EVEN if dinasaurs ate humans relatively often, it is unlikely that such evidence would be preserved in the fossil record and even more unlikely that humans would discover it.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
What about is the quantity of seemingly carnivorous Dinosaur fossils found?
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Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
"I maintain my disagreement"
No suprise here! "I still contend it would be inevitable that people would be eaten if they were contemporaries with the dinosaurs, just as it is inevitable that people would have eaten dinosaurs, and we would find their remains at archealogical sites." Well, I never said that dinasaurs NEVER ate people, just that such an event was very unlikely, coupled with the unlikliness of fossilization of such an event. Also, any civilization that was post-flood would not eat dinasaurs. And there is no way of knowing what people 6000 years ago would of eaten. "But let's set aside the 'human hideout' concept and widen the question a little more. Why aren't we finding bones from mountain goats, horses, camels, pronghorns, rabbits, birds, deer, mice, voles (for the procomposagnathids and ceoleophysis) wildcats, wolves, mammoths, elk, bears etc. in dinosaur bellies? In fact, every extant large land animal that I can think of is post-Cretaceous. Imagine, not one of them being represented inside a dinosaur ribcage!" Before evaluating the question further, I would like to know, How often are remains found inside dinasaur ribcages?
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Well, creationists think that any evidence that contradicts creationism is being interpreted wrongly."
--My opinion on interperetation of evidence and data on the question of where is it valid, is that if it contredicts creationism, I should either find out what has not been considered, be willingly ignorant, or change my system of belief on Earth history. In my opinion, scientific discovery is superior. Though obviously, let us not take this to our heads. I have always found that the more I understand any concept or scientific observation, the more compatable it becomes, this is my personal reason for believing what I believe. Though ofcourse, the more this happens, the more I must fashion my inference on the past to be harder and sharper, which is infact, the strength of science, not its weakness. ------------------
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Cobra_snake Inactive Member |
"While I am encouraged that these folks are being seen as the nutcases they are, what about the grandfather of the modern Creation "science" movement, Henry Morris?"
What exactly about Henry Morris compels you to believe that he is a nutcase? "He expounds on all sorts of topics, such as Biology, Geology, and Astrophysics, as if he was an expert, yet his degree is in Hydrolics." That doesn't mean he can't pontificate on other topics, it just means that one should be skeptical of what he says on these topics. "Creationist peer-review is not scientific peer-review. If they want to be considered real, professional scientists, then they should be able to get their work published in real, professional scientific journals." Duh, don't you know about the Grand Evilutionist Conspiracy? "Of course, their work is based on a a particular interpretation religious book, and not emperical evidence found in nature, so it cannot, by definition, be considered scientific." Yes, they do base their work on a particular preconcieved notion.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3851 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][b]Before evaluating the question further, I would like to know, How often are remains found inside dinasaur ribcages?[/QUOTE]
[/b] "Occasionally" is the best way to put it -- stomach acids often can decompose bones before the carcass decomposes. Sue was the first T-rex to have stomach contents identified with it (Elasmosaur). Spinosaurus stomach contents have also been found (Iguanadon and fish) but these are the only instances I could find on the web. A search of paleontological literature would likely yield more information. Other data comes from coprolites, fossil dinosaur feces. I can't find anything decent with web searches because all the hits are rock shops and dinosaur pages for elementary school students.
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edge Member (Idle past 1734 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Can I reming you of this the next time you ask about why we don't have a continuous lineage of organisms to "prove" evolution. Also, part of the problem here is that we not only fail to find evidence of human predation by carnivorous dinosaurs, but there is no evidence anything human or human designed in any stratum containing evidence of dinosaurs. To me, this makes it more likely that humans and dinosaurs simply did not exist contemporaneously.
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edge Member (Idle past 1734 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: And it also doesn't mean that we cannot critique his analyses and take potshots at his credentials. Basically, Morris is an engineer, and not a scientist. [This message has been edited by edge, 04-15-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Irrelevant.
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I have another question. If humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, then why don't we find human artifacts made from dinosaur bone and skin? We have things made from whalebone, horsebone, elephant hide, snakeskin, buffalo hide, ivory, tortiseshell, etc. etc. Some of these items are tens of thousands of years old. Why no dinobone?
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techristian Member (Idle past 4130 days) Posts: 60 Joined: |
Ok here is your answer Mark.
First of all I won't accept one type of GULL and another type of GULL. THEY ARE BOTH GULLS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD !Secondly I won't accept one type of SALAMANDER and another type of salamander. THEY ARE BOTH SALAMANDERS ! Third I would like to ask if breeding was even ATTEMPTED (in a labratory) between both creatures at both ends of the "ring". I won't accept "Lucy". After watching that program I noticed many things that weren't quite right about the "skeleton" such as different color bones. (which would lead me to think that "Lucy" was actually a combination of the bones of more than one individual.) I wrote an entire paper on the "Lucy" program. To answer you honestly, there have been so many SCAMS with "Pilt Down Man" and others that I would almost need a missing link to walk up to me and say "I am a missing link. Try to disprove it!" Even "carbon dating" has been disproved when a pig bone (buried only a few years earlier) was said to be "MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD" Scientists already tried to make their own "missing link" when they transplanted a baboon heart into a baby.............................. and FAILED MISERABLY. Now Mark please tell me what it would take to make you believe in a SUPREME CREATOR. Dan
http://musicinit.com
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Joe Meert Member (Idle past 5708 days) Posts: 913 From: Gainesville Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by techristian:
[B]Ok here is your answer Mark. First of all I won't accept one type of GULL and another type of GULL. THEY ARE BOTH GULLS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD !Secondly I won't accept one type of SALAMANDER and another type of salamander. THEY ARE BOTH SALAMANDERS ! Third I would like to ask if breeding was even ATTEMPTED (in a labratory) between both creatures at both ends of the "ring".[/QUOTE] JM: Would you accept a vertebrate giving rise to a eukaryote?
quote: JM: No doubt you told the Ethiopian government researchers, Don Johanssen and others about your 'discovery'. HAve you published your 'paper' in a scientific journal? Do you get all your science from TV shows? You can spin your own conspiracies anywhere you want; I'd like to see your scientific analysis of Lucy in the published literature as would all scientists. So, when will it appear?
quote: JM: NOw, that is a lie. Maybe inadvertent on your part, but no C-14 date would EVER give millions of years. Thanks for trying, but you've repeated somebody else's lie uncritically and it just voided all your other arguments.
quote: HUH?
quote: JM: I can't speak for Mark, but I know that 50 million dollars deposited in my bank account today would go a long way towards convincing me. Cheers Joe Meert [This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 04-15-2002]
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Techristian, you're getting a bit weird here. You can't create a "missing link" through organ transplants. That would have to be done through some kind of genetic modification, and even then who knows how it could be done. The specific event you're referring to is when Doctor Leonard Bailey of Loma Linda University transplanted a baboon heart into Baby Fae in 1984. It was attempted because human donor hearts were unavailable, and the surgical alternative available at the time had an exceedingly low success rate then, about 2%. Baby Fae died after about 20 days. This has nothing to do with the Creation/Evolution debate, but it was a historic event because it helped call attention to the problem of the shortage of human donors. --Percy
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5223 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: I'll ask again, what would you accept as a transitional? Please note, I DID NOT ask what you wouldn't accept. If I could be cheeky, & add to that, what criteria would you apply to all fossils to determine whether they are transitional or not? Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with. [This message has been edited by mark24, 04-15-2002] [This message has been edited by mark24, 04-15-2002]
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5900 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
quote: Why would anyone attempt to breed these species in a lab? What would that prove? Their ranges overlap at both ends. The critters don't interbreed. That by definition makes them distinct species. You can shout about them still be the same "kind" or whatever all you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are distinct species. Over time, the same mechanisms that created the two species in the first place can eventually cause these two populations to diverge even further. Shouting about it won't change the fact.
quote: Wow. I'm impressed! You were able to see through that evil hoax via a made-for-TV documentary from the comfort of your own living room. I wish I had that ability. Do you have any idea how ludicrous that statement is? You, techchristian, were able to discover that the scientists who study human evolution all their lives were completely wrong. Based on a TV program. Amazing.
quote: Piltdown Man was a hoax perpetrated on scientists. It was debunked relatively immediately by scientists (once they had the chance to examine it). By your standards, given all of the spurious "holy relics", false prophets, and fake "visions" Christianity has been plagued with over the centuries, you should automatically reject that, as well. As to the mis-dated pig bone - your assertion doesn't make it so. Care to give a reference? Any other "scams" you'd like to discuss?
quote: I assume you were referring to the "Baby Fae" heart transplant that was an attempt to save the life of a new-born baby when no other appropriately-sized heart was available? I'd say it was a brave, if desperate (and probably foredoomed) effort to save a human life. Isn't that what you Christians are supposedly on about all the time? Saving babies? How you can say the doctors (not evolutionary biologists, btw) were trying "to create a missing link", rather than state what it was - a last-ditch attempt to save a child's life? Your comment is utterly indefensible. You need to seriously re-examine your sources of information.
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