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Author Topic:   The Evolution of Flight.... why are some birds grounded?
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 31 of 84 (57605)
09-24-2003 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by hoju
09-24-2003 9:51 PM


One person - Does things one way, his way. (similarities : D)
Then why so many different kinds of eyes?

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 Message 29 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 9:51 PM hoju has replied

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hoju
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 84 (57606)
09-24-2003 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by DC85
09-24-2003 9:57 PM


but that doesnt change my response : )
I think your going a little off topic...I believes the question has been answered ; D

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 Message 30 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 9:57 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:06 PM hoju has replied

  
hoju
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 84 (57609)
09-24-2003 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by JonF
09-24-2003 9:57 PM


"Then why so many different kinds of eyes?"
Theres not so many different kinds of eyes. Can you give me a specific example to work with please?
[This message has been edited by hoju, 09-24-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by JonF, posted 09-24-2003 9:57 PM JonF has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 34 of 84 (57610)
09-24-2003 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by hoju
09-24-2003 10:00 PM


no it doesn't an all knowing God should know all and could design a larger variety. Which also means he/she/it doesn't have one way of thinking. also why doesn't a Cat look like a bird if what you are saying is the case?
[This message has been edited by DC85, 09-24-2003]

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 Message 32 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:00 PM hoju has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:13 PM DC85 has replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7013 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 35 of 84 (57611)
09-24-2003 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by hoju
09-24-2003 9:22 PM


quote:
The wings have functions
Like the wonderous functions of the appendix, the liver fluke, or Near Earth Objects?
quote:
balance while running
What animals are supposedly having problems with balance? And a high-drag appendage is a good way to solve it?
quote:
cooling in hot weather
Yes, all of those feathers make cooling down so easy. Meanwhile, back in the real world, ostriches cool down by panting. In particularly hot weather, they'll use their wings to fan themselves - to try and undo all of the damage that having such a thick coat of feathers is doing.
quote:
warmth in cold weather
Yes, that frigid serengeti...
quote:
protection of the ribcage during falls
And something else wouldn't be better at keeping one safe during falls? Oh, lets just say.... arms???
quote:
mating rituals
Millions of other species get along just fine without their mating rituals involving body parts that work against them in every other aspect of their lives.
quote:
scaring predators
This is the only one that has some truth in it - ostriches are "weird" enough looking that recently introduced predators to them often are afraid of them. However, predators in areas where they are traditionally found hunt and eat them all the same, so it's irrelevant in the long run.
quote:
Sheltering of chicks
While ostriches do incubate their eggs, it's not done with their wings, it's done with the feathers and fatty tissue on the undersides of their bodies.
Perhaps they're God's "ball and chain" on ostriches? Designed to make them compete more poorly? Better hope that no mutation kills off those wings, then!
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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hoju
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 84 (57613)
09-24-2003 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by DC85
09-24-2003 10:06 PM


"no it doesn't an all knowing God should know all and could design a larger variety. Which also means he/she/it doesn't have one way of thinking. also why doesn't a Cat look like a bird if what you are saying is the case?"
I think you misunderstood what I meant by similarities. I mean, if God designed a wing can God not use it for other purposes, and in other places?
ex. Apes and Humans, they have similar features. Evolution? Or one Creator?

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 Message 34 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:06 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:16 PM hoju has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 37 of 84 (57615)
09-24-2003 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by hoju
09-24-2003 10:13 PM


ok now answer Rei he has good counters for your "functions". anyway Why did God create apes in the first place? to confuse us? I thought we where made in his images. are they also?
[This message has been edited by DC85, 09-24-2003]

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 Message 36 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:13 PM hoju has replied

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 Message 38 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:34 PM DC85 has replied

  
hoju
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 84 (57621)
09-24-2003 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by DC85
09-24-2003 10:16 PM


"Why did God create apes in the first place? to confuse us? I thought we where made in his images. are they also?"
Apes while having similarities, ALSO have differences.
"balance while running"
Scientists have proposed, Velociraptors tails are used for balance while running
"cooling in hot weather"
wings act as fans
"warmth in cold weather"
serengeti?
"protection of the ribcage during falls"
If arms and wings can do the same job does it matter which one?
"mating rituals"
body parts that work against them in every other aspect of their lives. Not true.
scaring predators
yay we somewhat agree on something...
"predators in areas where they are traditionally found hunt and eat them all the same, so it's irrelevant in the long run."
Many animals have protective mechanisms that dont always work on predators
"Sheltering of chicks"
wings can be used as a blankie : D
Now mind you, i got the original use of wings for flightless birds from sites.
If we go to nitpick and every single detail like this our questions would be infinite...
Many questions go unanswered because we cannot give answers to them.
Some stuffs beyond our human understanding
Guess we'll only find out the truth when we die.
[This message has been edited by hoju, 09-24-2003]

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 Message 37 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:16 PM DC85 has replied

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 Message 39 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:42 PM hoju has not replied
 Message 40 by Rei, posted 09-24-2003 10:44 PM hoju has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 39 of 84 (57623)
09-24-2003 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by hoju
09-24-2003 10:34 PM


well you don't know what the serengeti is.... , Also they could do more with arms , and the only use I can see you found is they can be used as a "blankie".

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 Message 38 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:34 PM hoju has not replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7013 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 40 of 84 (57624)
09-24-2003 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by hoju
09-24-2003 10:34 PM


I'll skip the posts that you gave which don't come close to addressing what I mentioned.
quote:
Scientists have proposed, Velociraptors tails are used for balance when running
Yes, their tail can be used for balance and maneuverability, because it's quite long. If you take a long object and swing it around, you can get quite an accelerative force. Dwarved wings won't do that for you.
quote:
serengeti
Among other places, yes. Ostriches are east/central African/southwest asian in origin.
[quote]If arms and wings can do the same job does it matter which one?[quote] Yes. Arms are far, far more effective at the job. A lot less drag while providing more length and a proper grip at the end - there's no contest. Falling with stubby wings and a long neck would be quite painful - it's questionable whether the wings would do anything for you.
quote:
Many animals have protective mechanisms that dont always work on predators
Well, it doesn't work on anything where they live any more. If you introduce a tiger to an ostrich, it'll tend to be afraid of it. But, tigers don't live near where ostriches do. Introduce a wild lion to an ostrich, it'll kill it off the bat. In short, it's completely ineffective where they live.
quote:
wings can be used as a blankie
Yes. But they're not.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:34 PM hoju has replied

Replies to this message:
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hoju
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 84 (57627)
09-24-2003 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Rei
09-24-2003 10:44 PM


lol, Rei owned me ; p
but the fact of the matter is minor things such as this do not prove evolution nor do they disprove creation.

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 Message 42 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:54 PM hoju has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 42 of 84 (57630)
09-24-2003 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by hoju
09-24-2003 10:48 PM


they don't disprove it.... but don't you care about things like this at all? Don't you wonder? or are you blinded by faith?(that is not to be an insult it is inteaded to get you to think past the bible or what ever you go by for a second) The point of this topic was not to disprove it. It was to get an answer for the question.
[This message has been edited by DC85, 09-24-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:48 PM hoju has replied

Replies to this message:
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hoju
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 84 (57632)
09-24-2003 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by DC85
09-24-2003 10:54 PM


they don't disprove it.... but don't you care about things like this at all? Don't you wonder? or are you blinded by faith?(that is not to be an insult it is inteaded to get you to think past the bible for a second)
Well frankly no matter what you say will change what I think. This probably goes to you too, no matter what I say will change the way you think.
There are ONLY 2 possibilities: Everything happened by random natural occurences, or someone else made things happen. Nothing else has been proposed, there is no alternative
Just look around and you can see that God exists. It must have begun somewhere. not by some random explosion, or expansion of space for no apparent reason.
[This message has been edited by hoju, 09-24-2003]

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 Message 42 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 10:54 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 11:04 PM hoju has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 44 of 84 (57635)
09-24-2003 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by hoju
09-24-2003 10:59 PM


once again they assume I am an atheist..... sigh(I am agnostic) anyway unlike you I will change what I believe. I have and I will again. I was a christen and believed the bible to be 100% true at one time..... this just proves you do not have an open mind... we could argue forever, give information and you still wouldn't care. However I do! don't compare me! Also Couldn't a god have just made the big bang happen?(note: I am not saying that happened I am just asking could it have) I don't know how the universe Began.... and it doesn't matter there are piles of evidence to back up evolution..... thats all that matters
[This message has been edited by DC85, 09-24-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 10:59 PM hoju has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by hoju, posted 09-24-2003 11:13 PM DC85 has replied

  
hoju
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 84 (57637)
09-24-2003 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by DC85
09-24-2003 11:04 PM


once again they assume I am an atheist..... sigh(I am agnostic) anyway unlike you I will change what I believe. I have and I will again. I was a christen and believed the bible to be 100% true at one time..... this just proves you do not have an open mind... we could argue forever, give information and you still wouldn't care. However I do! don't compare me! Couldn't a god have just made the big bang?
I never said you were atheist. And I didnt mean to only address you, i meant evolutionists on this forum. And myself, at first when young I believed all the Bible like you. Later when evolution was almost seen as fact, i just took it for granted and assumed it was true. Then I actually decided to research into it, and frankly to me, evolution just doesnt hold up. Now, my faith will never be shaken.
"Couldn't a god have just made the big bang?" This could be plausible for you if you do not believe the genesis chapter in the bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by DC85, posted 09-24-2003 11:04 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
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