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Author | Topic: Just a few questions... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
TheLiteralist Inactive Member |
Hi nwr,
TheLit writes: Are you saying that there was a time when only wind-pollenated plants existed? In response, nwr writes: Hmm, I probably misspoke on that. There are underwater plants, and unless we consider the water currents to be wind, those were not wind pollenated.I should have said that wind pollenated plants preceded insect pollinated plants. Heh. I'm not as argumentative as I sounded (I think). I actually meant, "Are you certain that the wind-pollenated plants preceded the insect-pollenated plants?" Well, you not only cleared up the fuzziness of it all, but you also answered the question as well. Now that we've got that cleared up (), would you mind sharing a few examples of what you consider evidence for your position that wind-pollenated plants preceded insect-pollenated plants? I'll have to read the co-evolution link to comment on that, which I intend to do. Regarding my question of which creatures were first to possess lungs, you answer (understandably tentatively) "lungfish." My next question, then, would be, "Are lung-fish the predecessors to amphibians? If not, then what are the predecessors to amphibians?" --Jason
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Enuf_Alredy Inactive Member |
Ok,now that you have all that...When, where, why and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
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Enuf_Alredy Inactive Member |
How did the flagella know to do specifically what it does? Wouldn't evolution require lots of trial and error? How would the species survive long enough to learn how to perform the said work?
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Now that we've got that cleared up (), would you mind sharing a few examples of what you consider evidence for your position that wind-pollenated plants preceded insect-pollenated plants? Again, keep in mind that I'm a computer scientist and mathematician, not a paleontologist. What I had in mind when I wrote that comment (on wind pollenation), was that the gymnosperms (includes conifers) were earlier than the angiosperms (flowering plants, some of which are insect pollenated). Just about any book on plants, including gardening books, will tell you that the gymnosperms are older.
My next question, then, would be, "Are lung-fish the predecessors to amphibians? If not, then what are the predecessors to amphibians?"
That's my understanding.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Ok,now that you have all that...When, where, why and how did life learn to reproduce itself? Seems kinda backwards as a question. I would define life by the ability to reproduce itself, so it's sort of a "right at the start" thing.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Wouldn't evolution require lots of trial and error? Yup. Sure did. Them that didn't make it through the filter ain't around. If you look, almost every living thing is a piss poor, just good enough to get by critter. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Enuf_Alredy Inactive Member |
I understand knowledge is power and through study you gain knowledge. I am just curious about the thoughts from other brainpans... This is a deep subject EvC...there is so much to be learned from books, studying, and other powerful minds...This forum is a wonderful place to gain experience and knowledge in science based discussions.
I love science in all aspects. I also love to learn. If I don't get anything else from this, I am least getting a lesson in the advanced sciences.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
How did the flagella know to do specifically what it does? I don't think the flagella "knows" anything. How did the flagella start doing what it does? Might be a better question. I think the answer is in the next part of your post.
Wouldn't evolution require lots of trial and error? How would the species survive long enough to learn how to perform the said work? The flagella's predacessor, one which did not consume that particular kind of wood or whatever, didn't suddenly evolve into the version in the termite. Small changes over time. The earlier version probably ate something that was on or in the wood. The flagella which first developed a taste for wood, suddenly had a whole lot more food than anyone else. Unfortunately, we're talking about microscopic little buggers that, even if they were to fossilize, how would you find them?
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
"Are lung-fish the predecessors to amphibians? I doubt that this is completely true. Just like chimps aren't the predecessors to humans, the current, modern lung-fish is the end of another branch on the tree. The predecessor to amphibians was likely related to the predessor to lungfish. Not trying to nitpick, but we all know what happens on these boards when someone "overstates" something
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Enuf_Alredy Inactive Member |
But when was the "right at the start thing?" How did life learn to be life?
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2492 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
"How did life learn to be life?"
This is a question which predates what Theory of Evolution describes. In other words, there are lots of possibilities for how life got started on Earth, and Theory of Evolution couldn't care less which one is right. First thing to do with this question is define "life" and "learn". By "life" I take it you mean a self replicating form which is born, ages and dies. This would cover a wide range of things from raccoons to bacteria. (perhaps even volcanos, I may have cast my net too wide.) As for "learn", I'm going to assume you mean "get started" as learning implies a higher brain function. If abiogenesis is correct, a mixture of chemicals perhaps sparked by lightning, produced basic amino acids and started it all. If Theistic Genesis is right, God came down and got it all started. Either way, once that ball got rolling, Theory of Evolution took over and got us to where we are today.
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Enuf_Alredy Inactive Member |
The ToE implies that new creatures come from the start of one creature. How can mutations (recombining of the gentetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce a Chinese book)
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
The ToE implies that new creatures come from the start of one creature. How can mutations (recombining of the gentetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce a Chinese book) No, and lo life is written with the same letters following the same grammer**. Just as a few English letters can create a seemingly infinite variety of books so the recombinations of the letters of the genetic code can and do create the variety of life we see. They are all a one. ** just a reminder about how analogies are of limited value and may be dangerous to the mind.
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
The predecessor to amphibians was likely related to the predessor to lungfish.
Thanks for the comment. I hadn't meant to suggest that modern lungfish were amphibian predecessors. I agree with your point.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 476 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
You can't use that analogy. The language of genetics only uses 4 letters. Try to guess what they are.
It may shock you to learn that DNA strands are only made of 4 bases, but to those of us who have a at least a little bit of background in genetics and biology, it's common knowledge. Now, if you want to completely discredit the theory of evolution, go ahead and find a creature whose DNA does not include one one or more of the 4 bases.
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