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Author Topic:   The Definition for the Theory of Evolution
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 20 of 216 (409215)
07-08-2007 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
07-07-2007 11:18 AM


Re: Your opinion, Your Favorite
Hi RAZD,
You probably won't find my comments too useful, but I was still interested in the topic, and I had a small thought.
Your definition;
Evolution is the (hereditary) change in species over time.
and the Forum definition, would probably not cause the fundies to lose any sleep.
The theory of evolution, on the other hand, can be stated as “All the living forms in the world have arisen over billions of years from a single common ancestor which itself came from an inorganic form.” This can be equated with the commonly used terms “macroevolution” (used by evolutionist) or simply “theory of evolution” (used by creationists).
This one would.
I suggest you put it all out there on the table so that there can be no misconception.
I also have found it useful to dwell on BIG changes happening one small step at a time. Much of the doubt arises when us neophites try to think on a large scale. Macro evolution, if I understand genetics rightly, is something which occurs on a 'micro' level.
I guess I am wondering if your def. is for those 'in the know', or for the average layman?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 07-07-2007 11:18 AM RAZD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2007 2:05 AM anastasia has replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 22 of 216 (409236)
07-08-2007 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dr Adequate
07-08-2007 2:05 AM


Re: Your opinion, Your Favorite
Yeah, point taken. I was going to say that the abiogenesis reference should be removed.
The common ancestry part seems a little more important.
I am not suggesting that anyone TRY to cause insomnia...but decent with modification is not the thing that creationists contest. That is easily observable. To ensure no oversight, it must be clear that macro evolution happens.
The best means I personally have found for understanding, is in breaking things down to the smallest level. That is not conclusively common ancestry, BUT the possibility of common ancestry, with modification, seems to make the most sense. Similar ancestry would probably suit as well, but it is up to you guys to decide which is more plausible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2007 2:05 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Modulous, posted 07-08-2007 12:03 PM anastasia has replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 43 of 216 (409316)
07-08-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Modulous
07-08-2007 12:03 PM


Re: Your opinion, Your Favorite
Modulous writes:
Either way, there is little true quarrel from creationists about the theory - most think that common ancestry is the theory of evolution and we should take pains to steer them from that misconception. It is only when we agree on consistent terms that we can have a meaningful debate.
So would you say creationists are more afraid of the implications of evolution, than the theory, and that a definition should not reflect anything which is a plausible inference? I'd agree with that.
The disagreement is twofold: How much change the theory of evolution can explain (it can explain micro but not macro according to the creationists) and how much change has occurred on earth (only micro and not macro).
Right, so it should be clear that decent with modification CAN explain all diversity on earth.
Anyway, don't take me too seriously.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Modulous, posted 07-08-2007 12:03 PM Modulous has not replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 68 of 216 (409479)
07-09-2007 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Cold Foreign Object
07-09-2007 1:53 PM


Re: Your opinion, Your Favorite
The theory of evolution unifies what is observed in nature. That may just so happen to exclude the views held by some Christians, like special creation. There is no need to mention that in any definition. It is accidental, marginal, irrelevent. It is perhaps even pompous to suggest that science is particularly interested in Christian beliefs.
Still, I would not have a definition beat around the bushes about the ToE's ability to make special creation false. That would not be doing it justice. This is why I said that 'decent with modification' could be further expounded.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-09-2007 1:53 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-09-2007 5:44 PM anastasia has not replied

anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 72 of 216 (409489)
07-09-2007 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Cold Foreign Object
07-09-2007 6:07 PM


Re: Prevaricating
Cold Foreign Object writes:
Are you actually saying ToE does not rule out God? If so, where is God IN ToE and can you provide at least two references of known evolutionary scholars?
Of course it doesn't rule out God. It just rules out some ideas of what God did, or how. It rules out the God of some Christians' belief.

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 Message 71 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 07-09-2007 6:07 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

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