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Author Topic:   The Definition for the Theory of Evolution
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2664 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 165 of 216 (416629)
08-17-2007 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Ihategod
08-17-2007 1:39 AM


Re: definition of evolution
I don't know what "biologically useful" means...
Here is a list of the different ways that "kind" has been defined by creos:
Genera as kinds
''Among the apes, the gibbons, orangutans, chimpanzees and gorillas would each be included in a different basic kind.'' (Gish, 1978, p 35.)
Families as kinds
''Thus the genera Panthera, Felis and Acinonyx may represent descendants of three original created cat kinds, or maybe two: Panthera-Felis and Acinonyx, or even one cat kind.'' (http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/271/)
Suborders as kinds
this website does what creationists very rarely do, and provides a list of "kinds". The general rule seems to be that a kind is the next taxonomic level up from family, i.e. a suborder or infraorder, although this is not completely systematic (mammal-like reptiles --- therapsids --- are lumped into one "kind", although they consistute an order). The same creationist excludes humans from the Catarrhini while lumping together oppossums, numbats, bandicoots, and the marsuipial tiger. (http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/showmammals.php?kindNumb...)
Orders as kinds
''Some organisms seem to have more available diversity in their baramins than do others. Orchids and beetles each have thousands of named species''. (Creationism and Baraminology Research News: Stasis of the Baramin, Purpose, and Inheritance Mechanisms)
Superorders as kinds
''Among the reptiles the turtles, crocodiles, dinosaurs, pterosaurs (flying reptiles), and ichthyosaurs (aquatic reptiles) would be placed in different kinds.'' (Duane Gish: ''Evolution: The Fossils Say No!'')
Phyla as kinds
''There are over seven thousand species of segmented worms, the worm kind.'' (http://www.creationmoments.org/radio/transcript.php?t=850)
From Problems of a different "kind" (Science forums, Is It Science?)
Should you wish to continue this discussion, I suggest you head on over to that forum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Ihategod, posted 08-17-2007 1:39 AM Ihategod has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2664 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 181 of 216 (417163)
08-19-2007 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Ihategod
08-19-2007 2:20 PM


Re: I got it!
What, specifically, do you find the TOE lacks per RAZD's Message 177?
For clarity's sake:
Hypothesis
1 a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement
Merriam Webster

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Ihategod, posted 08-19-2007 2:20 PM Ihategod has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2664 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 183 of 216 (417195)
08-19-2007 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Ihategod
08-19-2007 9:00 PM


Re: I got it!
Almost every instance of vestigial parts I see I just have to laugh. The hindlegs of a whale? LOL Just because 'science' doesn't know what the purpose is doesn't automatically classify it under vestigial.
Since this is the only point you've chosen to address, I will briefly respond.
Here is the vestigial organ link you are referring to.
There are 149 articles referenced that support the evidence offered for vestigial organs.
Since you ...
doubt whatever research has gone into this subject
... let's examine just one of the referenced articles.
Nievelstein, R. A., Hartwig, N. G., Vermeij-Keers, C., and Valk, J. (1993) "Embryonic development of the mammalian caudal neural tube." Teratology 48: 21-31.
In order to read this publication, you will need to have access to pubmed or a university library. Are you able to access scholarly research online?
If not, I can pick another article, one that is available online without a subscription, and we can discuss that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Ihategod, posted 08-19-2007 9:00 PM Ihategod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Ihategod, posted 08-19-2007 11:54 PM molbiogirl has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2664 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 188 of 216 (417234)
08-20-2007 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Ihategod
08-19-2007 11:54 PM


Re: I got it!
Tell you what.
If I propose a new topic on vestigial organs, will you join me there?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Ihategod, posted 08-19-2007 11:54 PM Ihategod has not replied

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