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Author Topic:   Archaeopteryx and Dino-Bird Evolution
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 89 of 200 (308808)
05-03-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Hyroglyphx
05-03-2006 2:12 PM


Re: Pwned???
Quagga, Zebra, donkeys and horses are all Equine's.
"Equine" is not a species. Equus, which you may be thinking of, is a genus, containing the different species you've mentioned above.
Claiming this to be some sort of empirical evidence of transspecific evolution is like using a German Shepherd and a wolf in the same way in the bag of evidence.
Right. German Shepards and Gray Wolves are two different species. The fact that one evolved from the other is proof of what you call "transspecific evolution." What else would the evolution of one species from another be expected to prove?
Evolutionary biologists are not content, however, on merely explaining how variations occur, but aspire to answer a much broader question. They seek to explain how all of life began in the first place.
No, they really don't. The origins of life is the province of biochemists, because the origin on life is a chemical problem.
Evolutionary biologists study the history and diversity of species on Earth.
How is it that individuals who pride themselves on their pragmatism and empiricism, continue to follow such an unempirical theory?
Isn't that a pretty powerful indication that you're wrong about evolution? That the evidentiary basis for the theory you dismiss is considerably better developed than you're prepared to admit?
Undoubtedly, there are powerful alliances with a vested, interest in the propulsion of this untenable theory.
Ah, right. Conspiracy theories. That's always a convincing argument.
Take for example the canine family.
Canidae is a family that contains wolves, dogs, foxes, and jackals. It's a very ancient family that has grown to include a large number of species that cannot possibly interbreed, thus providing a handy proof of macroevolution and the power of random mutation and natural selection to result in completely new species.
Likewise, botanists have breed many different types of roses, varying in size, shape, and color; but, as the saying goes, ”a rose is still a rose by any other name.’
Which disproves the idea of using common names as a basis for species identification. But for some reason, you persist in doing so. You will not understand how evolution is possible until you understand the organization of living things, and you cannot do that merely by looking at what organisms are called.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-03-2006 2:12 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-03-2006 4:07 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 102 of 200 (308838)
05-03-2006 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Hyroglyphx
05-03-2006 4:07 PM


Re: You confuse very well-known theories and splice conjecture into it
So, when a group of birds (or whatever organism) becomes isolated, a combination of inbreeding, or mutations can affect any given specie and cause it to exaggerate some of these recessive qualities.
We've performed experiments that prove that random mutation is able to give rise to new traits that weren't there before, or weren't present in a recessive form. We performed these experiments on organisms that have haploid genetics and therefore have no such thing as recessive traits. In those populations, under appropriate conditions, new traits are observed anyway. Because these organisms can have no recessive traits, we know that mutation is the source of the new observations.
But science fiction creeps in when we are expected to believe that a unicellular organism has the compulsion to evolve all the way up to an evolutionist.
This is perhaps your deepest mistake. Individual organisms do not evolve, so talk about "compulsions" is meaningless. Populations evolve, and populations are only under the "compulsion" to be shaped by their environment. And we know that environments exist that will shape unicellular organisms into multicellular ones. So what you term "science fiction", in the best tradition of science fiction, has become science fact. Unicellular life gave rise to complex multicellular life. We've seen it happen in experiments.
For how complex the DNA is, it eventually hits a brick wall.
There's absolutely no evidence of this. No experiment has ever shown a limit to the capacity of DNA to mutate into new sequences.
Do you understand the difference between micro and macro?
I do. You don't, though.
BTW, 'transspecific evolution' is just another name for macroevolution. So no, your Equine premise fails to meet the criteria.
Circular reasoning. If you define macroevolution as the development of one species from another - which no serious creationist does, by the way; you're way out on your own here, just to warn you - then you're forced to concede that macroevolution has been observed to happen, because we've seen old species give rise to new ones in countless trials and experiments. If you insist on defining macroevolution in that way, then you're forced to admit that it occurs. I suggest you find a new way to define it, as all the other creationists had to do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-03-2006 4:07 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 103 of 200 (308840)
05-03-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Hyroglyphx
05-03-2006 4:40 PM


Re: You confuse very well-known theories and splice conjecture into it
First of all, Darwin thought of many things that simply aren't true, such as, diet, environment, and exercise being responsible for evolutionary change because evolution requires evolutionary advances to be inherited. That obviously isn't the case. Wouldn't that be nice though? Your Dad worked out like a madman and you inherit all his hard work.
Darwin never held this view. In fact Darwin's work was a specific rebuttal of this form of "evolution", most prominently championed by Lamarck (and largely associated with his name.)
What are the problems with the scenario?
Besides your phenominal misunderstanding of the processes of evolution?
Or, they were born with a certain combination of genes that allowed them to be stronger and more resistant to the pesticide.
Right. And what was the source of those unique genes? Mutation.
Mutation, combined with natural selection, is evolution. The Orkin man would be mistaken to point to those two roaches as having evolved, you're correct.
That's because individuals don't evolve. Populations do. And the population of roaches evolved - it evolved resistance to pesticide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-03-2006 4:40 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Modulous, posted 05-03-2006 5:43 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 111 of 200 (308923)
05-03-2006 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Hyroglyphx
05-03-2006 10:06 PM


Re: Atavisms
That would mean that he develpoed all of these wonderful contrivances in one felled swoop or that he evolved slowly with stump-like appendages.
What leads you to believe that the transitional appendage between "leg" and "wing" is "stump"?
I mean, did that make sense when you typed it, or what? I just don't follow.
The problem it presents in the standard Darwinian model is that it doesn't explain why appendices are present in certain mammals, and not others. As well, speaking from a naturalistic point of view, the prevailing wisdom cannot account for why it is first present in some marsupial animals like the wombat, but absent in all the mammals between the wombat and man.
Do you have a citation for this? My own brief research seems to confirm what I initally suspected - you're completely wrong. From what I can tell, appendectal vermiform processes are present in lieu of the cecum of all mammals who don't have a cellulose-heavy diet.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course; not to your own facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-03-2006 10:06 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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