Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 180 (8016 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 04-20-2014 2:04 AM
209 online now:
dwise1, nwr (2 members, 207 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Ed67
Upcoming Birthdays: AndrewPD
Post Volume:
Total: 723,757 Year: 9,598/28,606 Month: 1,288/2,455 Week: 6/592 Day: 6/64 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1819
20
2122
...
31NextFF
Author Topic:   Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 286 of 451 (534078)
11-04-2009 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by purpledawn
11-04-2009 2:19 PM


Re: weight or girth, body density factors
Hi Purpledawn

Chemo depletes nutrients from the body and you probably can't eat enough to restore those nutrients even if you had an appetite. Here is an unexpected twist discovered in a study done by Eli Lilly.
Vitamins to relieve chemotherapy side effects

Well then it's a good thing I take Folic Acid and B12 suppliments in addition to a full elderly vitamin pill (last thing I want is some vitamin deficiency due to my funky post treatment "diet"

Fruit juices were my weakness. I haven't had sodas for over 20 years.

I think I gave up soda 30 years ago and I've never been keen on the fruit drinks -- I'll go for the V8's if I need something beside coffee.

In the studies he mentioned people couldn't get fat on meat and fats alone. They needed to add carbs. I think the carbs in these studies were fruits and veggies.

The South Beach diet says the same thing about insulin cycling. I've pretty much avoided beef for the last 5 years or so (since moving here) and particularly ground beef. I figure all those grwoth hormones and diet supplements to make the beef cows obese is carried to the consumer in at least some small quantities to the same effect on humans (duh?), and the MAD COW disease was the clincher -- evidence of horizontal transfer through diet.

Chemo definitely doesn't help. One of the issues I had with my father's treatment is that they didn't address his nutrition. They just told him to eat what he felt like eating. Well he didn't feel like eating much of anything most times and when he did it was the sweets and processed carbs that he preferred. I think he had difficulty tasting also.

Taste and smell, can key nausea, and yes the cruel part for me is that coffee doesn't taste right for a week. Even my pee smells different (and is as noticable as when you eat asparagus).

One of the arguments for "Dr Jane" is that it curbs nausea and restores appetite (munchies), but it's gotta be natural

My weakness is dark chocolate. Very dark chocolate.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by purpledawn, posted 11-04-2009 2:19 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 12811
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 287 of 451 (557615)
04-27-2010 8:23 AM


The Tide may be Turning
Taubes hypothesis in Good Calories, Bad Calories is that it is carbohydrates rather than fat that is responsible for the diseases of western civilization (heart disease, diabetes and obesity), and evidence supporting his hypothesis continues to grow. This month's Scientific American includes a news note about the gathering evidence. You can find the article on-line at Carbs against Cardio: More Evidence that Refined Carbohydrates, not Fats, Threaten the Heart, but here's how it begins:

Scientific American writes:

Eat less saturated fat: that has been the take-home message from the U.S. government for the past 30 years. But while Americans have dutifully reduced the percentage of daily calories from saturated fat since 1970, the obesity rate during that time has more than doubled, diabetes has tripled, and heart disease is still the country’s biggest killer. Now a spate of new research, including a meta-analysis of nearly two dozen studies, suggests a reason why: investigators may have picked the wrong culprit. Processed carbohydrates, which many Americans eat today in place of fat, may increase the risk of obesity, diabetes and heart disease more than fat does—a finding that has serious implications for new dietary guidelines expected this year.

Looks like time may finally be running out for the dietary fat hypothesis.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by RAZD, posted 08-11-2010 8:39 PM Percy has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 288 of 451 (573543)
08-11-2010 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Percy
04-27-2010 8:23 AM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
Hey Percy, thought I'd give an update.

Taubes hypothesis in Good Calories, Bad Calories is that it is carbohydrates rather than fat that is responsible for the diseases of western civilization (heart disease, diabetes and obesity), and evidence supporting his hypothesis continues to grow.

Since my last post on this thread, I cut out three things:

(1) sugar of any kind (even substitutes) - especially as it can also fuel cancer cells,

(2) starch (no potatoes or beans, etc) except occasional corn (yum on the cob, fresh)

(3) wheat (no breads (which often have highfructosecornsyrup as well) which also means no gluten.

With this diet I lost 15 lbs fairly quickly, and with that diet and taking up cycling most every day since early aprilish (cycling thread started 07may10 with 100 miles done), I have now lost another 10 lbs, and stand 5'-9" at 190 lbs.

The websites on ideal weight show I should lose another 15lbs ...

So far most loss has been in the derriere - I'm down several pant sizes and a couple of belt notches, and I could stand to lose more from the belly area.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Percy, posted 04-27-2010 8:23 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Percy, posted 08-11-2010 8:48 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Percy
Member
Posts: 12811
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 289 of 451 (573548)
08-11-2010 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by RAZD
08-11-2010 8:39 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
Hey, good news. Bet it feels good!

My willpower is fighting a loosing battle with a desire for certain foods, but still, I'm not doing too bad. The problem with a low carb diet is boredom due to lack of variety.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by RAZD, posted 08-11-2010 8:39 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by shalamabobbi, posted 08-24-2010 1:48 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 291 by purpledawn, posted 02-05-2011 2:37 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
shalamabobbi
Member
Posts: 396
Joined: 01-10-2009
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 290 of 451 (576553)
08-24-2010 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Percy
08-11-2010 8:48 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
Might try giving "The China Study"(T. Colin Campbell) a read in conjunction with John Robbin's "The Food Revolution".
I changed my diet to fruits in the morning, raw vegetables or juiced vegetables for lunch and grains(quinoa, hemp seed), nuts, occasional fish in the evening.
My weight returned to what it was in high school and I regained mental alertness, no more feeling sleepy, lots of excess energy.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Percy, posted 08-11-2010 8:48 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
purpledawn
Member
Posts: 4452
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 291 of 451 (603588)
02-05-2011 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Percy
08-11-2010 8:48 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
quote:
Hey, good news. Bet it feels good!

My willpower is fighting a loosing battle with a desire for certain foods, but still, I'm not doing too bad. The problem with a low carb diet is boredom due to lack of variety.

--Percy


Yes, variety is a problem. Fortunately for me I have rather boring taste buds.

The February 2011 Reader's Digest has an article about Taubes in it. He was interviewed concerning his new book Why We Get Fat--and What to Do About It. It's pretty much a condensed version of the Good Carbs Bad Carbs book.

I recommended it to my family since they didn't want to take the time to read the big book. I haven't checked out the new book yet. I figured it's just repackaging parts of the Good Carbs Bad Carbs book. Looks like it is at least 250 pages.

Nice option for family members who don't want to read much.
Easier for quick reference.

Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Percy, posted 08-11-2010 8:48 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Asgara, posted 02-05-2011 3:15 PM purpledawn has responded

Asgara
Member (Idle past 1 days)
Posts: 1679
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 292 of 451 (603592)
02-05-2011 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by purpledawn
02-05-2011 2:37 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
The new book seems to be geared more towards a layman audience without the heavier science references. I just got done reading it and am now reading "Protein Power Lifeplan" by Drs Michael and Mary D Eades. Also just watched a video from Stanford researcher Christopher Gardner


This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by purpledawn, posted 02-05-2011 2:37 PM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by purpledawn, posted 02-05-2011 5:27 PM Asgara has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member
Posts: 4452
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 293 of 451 (603598)
02-05-2011 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Asgara
02-05-2011 3:15 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
quote:
The new book seems to be geared more towards a layman audience without the heavier science references.
That's good.

I watched the video. I found the part with the insulin resistance interesting. My mother has that problem and when I get her to go lower on carbs her blood sugar improves. Unfortunately then she listens to her dietitian or doctor and they want her on a low fat, high carb; her blood sugar goes up. Then they up her meds. Scary.

She has more trouble with her weight on the high carb diet.

It would be nice not to have to think so much about our food.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Asgara, posted 02-05-2011 3:15 PM Asgara has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by RAZD, posted 02-07-2011 5:39 PM purpledawn has responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 15455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 294 of 451 (603801)
02-07-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by purpledawn
02-05-2011 5:27 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
Hi purpledawn

She has more trouble with her weight on the high carb diet.

I seem to do better with weight control with low carbs, but I need to get back on board (I've slipped into some breads and -horrors- cookies). I seem to be maintaining my waist, but I feel like I am gaining weight (don't have a scale).

Curiously, it seems every time I have something with sugar in it my face (where I still have some swelling and inflammation left over from shingles) lights up with tingling sensations over the whole cheek. Quite distracting and annoying (not painful) as if my body is telling me something I should already know.

I watched the video. I found the part with the insulin resistance interesting.

And water and energy loading. I mostly drink coffee, so I don't know how many fewer calories I get when drinking water ...

http://www.diet-blog.com/08/how_many_calories_in_coffee.php

quote:
So: coffee beans + water = virtually calorie-free.
It's about Milk and Sugar
starbucksdrink.jpg
When we talk about about a coffee high in calories - we are really talking about the additives we put in it. Caffeine is a bitter chemical and products containing caffeine are bitter - so we tend to sweeten them up - with milk, sugar, or syrups.

The larger the drink volume - the more milk you will be getting. With espresso-based drinks (latte, cappuccino) - the amount of water in the drink is minimal (typically 45mls / 1.5 fl. ounces per espresso shot). You do the math: a 16 ounces Grande Latte from Starbucks will have two espresso shots (~ 3 oz) -- that leaves around 13 ounces of milk (depending on how much foam tops the drink) - so there's 198 Calories already (if the milk is 2% reduced fat).


My lattes are usually half that (8 ounce, one shot) with 1%. No sugar.

Tea I drink straight.

When cycling I usually drink a lot of water.

It would be nice not to have to think so much about our food

Indeed.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by purpledawn, posted 02-05-2011 5:27 PM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by purpledawn, posted 02-07-2011 7:39 PM RAZD has responded

purpledawn
Member
Posts: 4452
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 295 of 451 (603813)
02-07-2011 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by RAZD
02-07-2011 5:39 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
quote:
I seem to do better with weight control with low carbs, but I need to get back on board (I've slipped into some breads and -horrors- cookies). I seem to be maintaining my waist, but I feel like I am gaining weight (don't have a scale).
Yep, the holidays got me. Weight started creeping up. My clothes still fit, but for how long.

We are starting to work with quinoa. High in protein and good on fiber. Since I'm not much for salads, I don't get enough fiber. Hopefully this will help and not add fat to my body. We shall see in a week or two.

I haven't found anything yet that says I can have sugar and not have to exercise.

I keep looking though.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by RAZD, posted 02-07-2011 5:39 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by RAZD, posted 02-07-2011 8:40 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 15455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 296 of 451 (603821)
02-07-2011 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by purpledawn
02-07-2011 7:39 PM


Re: The Tide may be Turning
Hi again purpledawn

Yep, the holidays got me. Weight started creeping up. My clothes still fit, but for how long.

I'm still down to my 34" waist pants (from 38-40) but I had been thinking maybe 32's and now the 34's are getting tight.

We are starting to work with quinoa. High in protein and good on fiber. Since I'm not much for salads, I don't get enough fiber. Hopefully this will help and not add fat to my body. We shall see in a week or two.

I'm going back to yogurt & fruit for brekky, meat & cheese for lunch and mixed meat and veggies for dinner (fish and stirfrys)

If I need a snack I'll go to nuts or fruit, and in evening will make a yogurt "sunday" (so I try to tell myself anyway) with fruit or raisins

I haven't found anything yet that says I can have sugar and not have to exercise.

Try a fructose sweet like bosc pears? It tastes sweet but the loading is lower than sugared foods. It also gives you some fiber and is juicy (water content high?) so I feel full after eating one.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by purpledawn, posted 02-07-2011 7:39 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


(1)
Message 297 of 451 (629022)
08-15-2011 7:26 AM


It's not insulin levels
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/...sis-of-obesity.html

via boingboing

Stephan Guyenet, a neurobiologist who studies the neurobiology of body fat regulation, wrote a long, detailed critique of Gary Taubes' book, Good Calories, Bad Calories on his terrific blog, Whole Health Source.

Guyenet writes:

Carbohydrate consumption per se is not behind the obesity epidemic. However, once overweight or obesity is established, carbohydrate restriction can aid fat loss in some people. The mechanism by which this occurs is not totally clear, but it has nothing to do with removing the supposed suppressive effect of insulin on fat release from fat cells.

You might want to read the whole thing, Percy.
This guy picks apart Taubes argument pretty effectively.


Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Percy, posted 08-15-2011 8:02 AM molbiogirl has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 12811
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 298 of 451 (629026)
08-15-2011 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by molbiogirl
08-15-2011 7:26 AM


Re: It's not insulin levels
Hi Molbiogirl,

You're responding to a conversation we were having over three years ago. From what you're saying it sounds like at some point we must have gotten down some rat hole about insulin. Whether Taubes is right or wrong about the underlying mechanisms, the key point is that it is refined carbohydrates that are responsible for the diseases of western civilization, not fat intake.

I lost 30 pounds on the low carb diet. The blood tests from my annual physicals always show improved levels of triglycerides and the HDL/LDL ratio. Friends, who I ignored but finally my doctor, said I'd gone too far, so I put 5 pounds back on. But maintaining the lower weight is a pain, you have to continue dieting just to stay in the same place. A low carb diet is very uninteresting, so I go off it many weekends and then return to it during the week. Going up and down a couple pounds every week or two feels like a miniature version of the more long term weight yo-yo that many people go through and may not be healthy, but I hope it's healthier than being 25 pounds overweight.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by molbiogirl, posted 08-15-2011 7:26 AM molbiogirl has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by molbiogirl, posted 08-15-2011 10:23 AM Percy has responded

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 299 of 451 (629036)
08-15-2011 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Percy
08-15-2011 8:02 AM


Re: It's not insulin levels
I noticed a while back that you posted to this thread so when I found the boingboing article, I posted here as well.

Did you read the blog I linked to? Guyenet's arguing the same thing I was 3 years ago. Taubes' science is wrong, Percy. Really wrong.

And your weight loss of 30 lbs is not surprising. Cutting carbs leads to lower calorie intake. There is also evidence that cutting carbs suppresses appetite.

And your triglycerides/LDLs went down as a result of the weight loss, not the carb thing.

Mayo Clinic writes:

Top 5 lifestyle changes to reduce cholesterol

1. Lose weight

Carrying some extra pounds — even just a few — contributes to high cholesterol. So losing as little as 5 to 10 pounds (about 2 to 5 kilograms) can help reduce cholesterol levels.

Mayo Clinic writes:

What's the best way to lower triglycerides?

Lose weight. If you're overweight, losing 5 to 10 pounds can help lower your triglycerides. Motivate yourself by focusing on the benefits of losing weight, such as more energy and improved health.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Percy, posted 08-15-2011 8:02 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Percy, posted 08-15-2011 11:42 AM molbiogirl has responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 12811
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 300 of 451 (629053)
08-15-2011 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by molbiogirl
08-15-2011 10:23 AM


Re: It's not insulin levels
molbiogirl writes:

Taubes' science is wrong, Percy. Really wrong.

A more complete statement of what I think you're trying to say is that Taubes misinterprets the research he thinks supports his position that it is carbohydrates and not fat that is responsible for the diseases of western civilization (heart disease, obesity and diabetes).

The key concern isn't whether Taubes is right or wrong but why we get fat, and more importantly, how to prevent it. The common dietary recommendations of the medical establishment over the past hundred years have a remarkable record of non-success, in my own opinion because they're all what I call "willpower diets." These are diets that work only as long as your willpower holds out. We need medical recommendations that work, or at least explanations that make sense. And above all we need a medical establishment that doesn't blame the victims for their obesity.

And your triglycerides/LDLs went down as a result of the weight loss, not the carb thing.

My test results are much better today than they've ever been, better even than when I was younger and lighter than I am now, yet for decades the medical establishment was telling us that low carb diets were unhealthy. Those opposed to low carb diets need to start saying things that actually turn out to be true before their recommendations can be taken seriously.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by molbiogirl, posted 08-15-2011 10:23 AM molbiogirl has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by molbiogirl, posted 08-15-2011 12:01 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
RewPrev1
...
1819
20
2122
...
31NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2014 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2014