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Author Topic:   How do you define the word Evolution?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 936 (260744)
11-17-2005 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by bkelly
11-17-2005 8:24 PM


Re: Is a mutation evolution?
Evolution on a large scale is nothing but the composition of evolution of the individuals one at a time.
Individuals do not evolve. Individuals are born with mutations; they either reproduce or they do not.
Evolution, which is a change in allele frequencies in a population, cannot be meaningfully said to occur to individuals.
Given my example of green eyes in a blue eyed population, at what point do we have the transition from mutation to evolution? Why do you pick that point?
For the individual, it's a mutation. For the population, it's evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by bkelly, posted 11-17-2005 8:24 PM bkelly has replied

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 Message 36 by bkelly, posted 11-18-2005 8:12 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 37 of 936 (260893)
11-18-2005 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by bkelly
11-18-2005 8:12 AM


Re: another problems of definition
During anaphase the chromosomes separate at the kinetochores (as I understand this, where the chromosomes are tied together causing the X shape) but it does not clearly say where or when the chromosomes reconstruct after the split.
Well, they don't. They never reconstruct. The two copies of each chromosome are forever seperated by the division of the cell.
The same could be said for mutation, an individual does not mutate, the mutation occurs during the creation of the individual.
To be most pedantic, the mutation is actually occuring during meiosis, the cellular division process that produces the haploid genetics of gametes.

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 Message 36 by bkelly, posted 11-18-2005 8:12 AM bkelly has replied

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 Message 38 by bkelly, posted 11-18-2005 10:46 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 41 of 936 (260963)
11-18-2005 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by bkelly
11-18-2005 10:46 AM


Re: another problems of definition
That depends on how we define reconstruct. Lets see if I have this right. The chromosomes split into two pieces. From each of these two pieces (really each piece seems to be multiple pieces, but the term piece refering to each complete half of the DNA should suffice) the entire and correct dna sequence can be constructed. Since the DNA was once whole, reconstruct is appropriate.
Ok so far, the term you're looking for is "replication"; both strands of the DNA molecule are seperated from each other by enzymes and are used as templates to attach complimentary nucelotides; the end result is two copies of the same molecule, where before you had one. This occurs during prophase of mitosis.
At the end of this phase, there are two complete copies of the DNA of one cell. These two copies go their separate ways and become two cells.
So far, so good. Your wording earlier confused me; I thought you were referring to the "reconstruction" of the paired chromosomal copies that seperate in telophase of mitosis.
What is the name of the step where the separated stands of DNA gather together the parts needed to make itself whole again.
That's still prophase; to correct your misapprehension about the process of DNA replication, the separation of strands and the development of the complimentary strand occur in one pass along the chromosome, simultaneously. They're not seperate steps in mitosis/meiosis.
And back to one of my earlier points, what is the name of the process when the half DNA of the sperm and the half DNA of the egg (each formed my mitosis) combine together to complete conception?
That is conception. Again, to correct what appears to be your misapprehension, gametes do not contain "half DNA"; they contain full chromosomes with complete double-helix DNA. They simply contain half of the chromosomes of a normal somatic cell.
During conception, chromosomes from the egg and from the sperm combine in the egg and a nucelus forms around them, but the chromosomes do not physically attach to each other or anything, they don't combine in the way that one strand of DNA is combined with its compliment to form one chromosome.
All that happens is that the 23 chromosomes from the sperm are dumped in with the 23 from the egg, and a nuclear membrane forms around them.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 42 of 936 (260967)
11-18-2005 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Percy
11-18-2005 11:43 AM


Re: another problems of definition
During mitosis every chromosome (all 46 in humans) has it's DNA split down the middle, and each half goes to one of the two cells created by the division. These DNA halves are used as templates to rebuild copies of the original DNA strands.
I think you've got it backwards, or else I do. My information indicates that chromosome replication occurs first, during prophase; and then the duplicate chromosome pairs are pulled to different ends of the elongating cell, and then cytokinesis occurs and the cell is divided into two.
The reason I think it happens this way is because DNA helix seperation and nucleotide replication occur in the same pass. My guess is that it would be very dangerous to the cell to have an uncomplimented DNA strand floating along; those open pyramidines and purines will probably bond to anything, and lead to lots of errors if you try to go back and run a polymerase along the strand to generate its compliment.

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 Message 39 by Percy, posted 11-18-2005 11:43 AM Percy has replied

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 Message 43 by Percy, posted 11-18-2005 1:47 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 44 of 936 (260972)
11-18-2005 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Percy
11-18-2005 1:47 PM


Re: another problems of definition
Part of the problem here is the confusing fact that, in your average animal cell, you've got pairs of things at every level - paired strands of DNA that seperate for replication, pairs of replicated chromosomes that line up for metotic seperation, and complimentary pairs of chromosomes 1 through 23, each one of the pair from one of two parents.
Understanding how many "normal" pairs, and pairs of what, exist in a baseline cell and how many pairs, and pairs of pairs, you have during different phases of different kinds of cell divison is very confusing indeed. I have to draw little pictures to keep it straight.

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