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Author Topic:   "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
nator
Member (Idle past 2026 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 49 (67067)
11-17-2003 12:00 PM


...;A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right", by Al Franken.

Oh, man, is this a good book.


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Asgara
Member
Posts: 1779
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 2 of 49 (67214)
11-17-2003 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
11-17-2003 12:00 PM


Schraf,

Once I started reading that book, I couldn't put it down. Next on my list of Franken books is "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot".

Michael Moore has some great books in the same genre - "Stupid White Men" and "Dude, Where's My Country"

------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 3858 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 3 of 49 (67289)
11-18-2003 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Asgara
11-17-2003 7:48 PM


Hi Asgara,
I actually liked the recent Franken book more than Moore's books (though I just bought Dude, where's my country? but have not read it yet).

I thought Franken, besides being really funny, was extremely meticulous with his references and cites which is critical. His main point is that lots of things are said in the news that are mere rumors but become fact by mere repetition or by a systematic push from an ideological group. By being so meticulous it is much harder to criticize him for just being a partisan hack like the people he attacks in his book. Moore is not always so meticulous and throws in more opinion but is still very entertaining and I am glad he is out there doing what he is doing...he is a bigger here in Germany than in the U.S.

The only problem with Franken's book is it starts out really funny but then as you think about the content, it really is not very funny at all and in fact what it says about the U.S. today is sadly accurate and horrible.


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Replies to this message:
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MrHambre
Member (Idle past 16 days)
Posts: 1493
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 4 of 49 (67299)
11-18-2003 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Mammuthus
11-18-2003 4:34 AM


Michael Moore: The Man You Hate to Love
I didn't like Moore's books either. Downsize This! in particular was a disappointment. His writing has little of the creativity of his film and TV work. Of course I agree with the guy, but he seems to be better at getting other people to say ridiculous things on camera than to come up with interesting things himself.

I've always hated Franken's onscreen personality, but his potshots at right-wingers are always welcome. I bet he even takes the credit for turning Rush into a bloated pill popper, and I wouldn't blame him.

------------------
The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed.
Brad McFall


This message is a reply to:
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 3858 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 5 of 49 (67309)
11-18-2003 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by MrHambre
11-18-2003 8:18 AM


Re: Michael Moore: The Man You Hate to Love
quote:
I've always hated Franken's onscreen personality, but his potshots at right-wingers are always welcome. I bet he even takes the credit for turning Rush into a bloated pill popper, and I wouldn't blame him.

I am sure that Franken convinced Limbaugh that he would get a better high by popping the pills in his ears as a joke leading to Rush going deaf...in Limbaugh's case deaf and dumb should be in reverse order...maybe Limbaugh can finance his drug addiction from former education secretary Bennett's gambling profits...oh, forgot, he only loses money.

Actually, the most recent thing I heard about Franken is that he plans on running for for political office in Minnesota.


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4079 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 6 of 49 (67399)
11-18-2003 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Asgara
11-17-2003 7:48 PM


Big fat idiot,
He's definitly dropped some major tonage from when he had his TV show. Back then if you told him to hall ass, he'd have had to make two trips.

As far as an idiot? The man has little formal education beyond high school, he's worth millions of bucks, has a staff of people working for him who have college degrees and has the ear of millions of people every day, some with no education and some with PHD's.

Controversial, yes - absolutely. An idiot, not by a county mile.

Like him or hate him, Rush has a solid platform that he stands on and you always know what side of the fence he will be on in an issue. Now take the salvation of the liberals in 2004 - Wes Clark. Now there's a geletinous mass of ideolgical funk that rolls like chilled fat in the direction the plate is tilted.

I do repect Howard Dean. He is deffinitly a real person with real convictions. Trouble is for the Dems, he'll never be allowed to capture the nomination. He's the GOP's Ross Perot.


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Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1950 days)
Posts: 2904
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 7 of 49 (67402)
11-18-2003 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 1:46 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
quote:
Like him or hate him, Rush has a solid platform that he stands on and you always know what side of the fence he will be on in an issue.

"If people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."
-Rush Limbaugh


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 2:11 PM Dan Carroll has responded

    
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4079 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 8 of 49 (67414)
11-18-2003 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dan Carroll
11-18-2003 1:48 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
So what is it about how he has dealt with his problem of drug abuse do you have the biggest problem?

What do you think he should do and what do you think should be done with him?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by zephyr, posted 11-18-2003 2:17 PM Lizard Breath has responded
 Message 10 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-18-2003 2:32 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 1933 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 9 of 49 (67420)
11-18-2003 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 2:11 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
Can't speak for Dan, but I will say you seem to be ignoring that he's pointed out one issue on which Rush is undeniably a hypocrite. That is, a factual contradiction of your statement.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 2:11 PM Lizard Breath has responded

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Dan Carroll 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1950 days)
Posts: 2904
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 10 of 49 (67425)
11-18-2003 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 2:11 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
Yeah, Zephyr pretty much nailed it. How solid is his platform on illegal drug use? What side of the fence is he on, exactly? I don't see him retracting his earlier statement, or insisting that he be sent to jail.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 2:11 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 2:43 PM Dan Carroll has responded

    
helena 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3228 days)
Posts: 80
Joined: 03-27-2008


Message 11 of 49 (67427)
11-18-2003 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Mammuthus
11-18-2003 4:34 AM


I do like Moore's books, although I think that he is being hyped far too much. Unfortunately, I have not - yet - read anything by Franken. I personally have enjoyed reading Greg Pallast's "The best democracy money can buy", which seemed to be well researched and thoroughly backed up by reference material.
regards
This message is a reply to:
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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4079 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 12 of 49 (67428)
11-18-2003 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by zephyr
11-18-2003 2:17 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
Actually, even though he didn't live up to his own ideology in this area, it's still factual to say we know where he stands on the issue of drug abuse. Now I'm sure he has tempered his judgements concerning those caught in drug abuse situations since his own experience with it. People do learn and change from time to time and is not limited to liberals. I bet those 5 weeks gave him lots of time to eat crow buffet as he replayed some of his statements.

Even though he admits to being powerless over the drug he was using, he still would be against the idea passing out clean needles to heroine addicts.


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Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4079 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 13 of 49 (67429)
11-18-2003 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dan Carroll
11-18-2003 2:32 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
I wouldn't expect to see him demanding to be sent to jail anytime soon, although in Rush's world it seems the proper punishment.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-18-2003 2:32 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-18-2003 3:07 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 3395 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 14 of 49 (67436)
11-18-2003 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 1:46 PM


You might say that "Rush has a solid platform that he stands on and you always know what side of the fence he will be on in an issue."

I'd rather put it as "predictably towing the party line, totally lacking the ability to thoughtfully consider his own prejudices and biases".

Surely somewhere there's a political figure who is neither a mindless demagogue nor an invertebrate poll worshipper?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 3:15 PM Zhimbo has responded

  
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 3395 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 15 of 49 (67437)
11-18-2003 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by MrHambre
11-18-2003 8:18 AM


Moore's a rabble-rouser, Franken, at heart, is really an academic. A damn funny academic.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by MrHambre, posted 11-18-2003 8:18 AM MrHambre has not yet responded

  
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