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Author Topic:   "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
Dan Carroll 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2060 days)
Posts: 2904
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 16 of 49 (67442)
11-18-2003 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 2:43 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
quote:
I wouldn't expect to see him demanding to be sent to jail anytime soon, although in Rush's world it seems the proper punishment.

And you see this as a solid platform?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 2:43 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 3:30 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

    
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 17 of 49 (67445)
11-18-2003 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Zhimbo
11-18-2003 2:56 PM


Party line
His message does parellel the Republican platform for sure. "TOTALLY lacking the ability to consider his own prejudices" is absurd, even before he faced his own demons and demonstrates that he is more to you than he is to me.

I view much of what he says as something to ponder and find that the conservative points he makes concerning morality are close to my own. The pure political stuff is way to "over the top" for me, but that's where most of his quotable notables come form. I have always considered his show an entertainment device primarily since I form my concepts of politics and life from a far different and much more narrow minded source. In the last several years I will admit that he takes himself far more serious than occasional listeners like myself do.

I dig talk radio as a whole. Glen Beck and Savage are my favorites while Rush and Sean are too "Repubs good, Dems bad" for my taste.

Rush's radical statements are discounted by me, one of the classics was when he said "What right do any of us have to see a 2000 year old Doug Fir or Sequioa Redwood".

Good, Bad, Right Wing or biased hyperspeak, his platform is solid (consistant) and his vocal message doesn't wavier.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Zhimbo, posted 11-18-2003 2:56 PM Zhimbo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Coragyps, posted 11-18-2003 5:47 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded
 Message 26 by nator, posted 11-18-2003 6:26 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded
 Message 29 by Zhimbo, posted 11-18-2003 7:47 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 18 of 49 (67456)
11-18-2003 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Dan Carroll
11-18-2003 3:07 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
You are confusing that fact that I said his platform is Solid (consistant) verses how his own lifestyle mimicks it. Now if I had said that he is my idol or I base my own life's decisions off what Rush says or doesn't say, then you have a point that I am wrong and he is a fluesy.

I said that you can look at his platform (which I should have said his VOCAL BROADCAST MESSAGE) and know where he stands on any issue. If he fails to apply his own message to himself, that makes him a hippocrite but doesn't change his VOCAL BROADCAST MESSAGE. It does make the message any diferent, but if you are holding the messenger up on a high pedestal like many, you got your world rocked. But he's still VOCALLY CONSISTANT.

I also said that much of what he says I ponder but only his conservative views on morality would I admit to being in course agreement to. Now if you are infering that I said his message is so great that I and everyone else should stand on it, then go read the post again. I only gave him credit for his VOCAL MESSAGE being consistant, not swaying with the ratings or public pressure.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-18-2003 3:07 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 4:01 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 49 (67469)
11-18-2003 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 3:30 PM


But he's still VOCALLY CONSISTANT.

So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter what moral views Limbaugh himself holds, just so long as the views he espouses never changes.

But if his vocal views never have consequences, it's not too hard for him to hold the same position, don't you think? There's no challenge to being a hypocrite. That's why people don't think much of them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 3:30 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 5:22 PM crashfrog has responded

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 20 of 49 (67498)
11-18-2003 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by crashfrog
11-18-2003 4:01 PM


Yep, that's it,
As long as Rush is telling me what my ears want to hear, he makes me so happy that I'd run off a cliff if he told me that that's what a good Republican would do.

Get real dude. He a player who ain't got no play right now and this whole drug thing ain't over by a long shot. You think I can seperate the message from the messenger so I don't care what he does as long as he says the right thing? That's the message of the left if you don't already recognise it. You know, what the President does on his own time is of no consequence to the job or message they espouse.

Rush has issues, but his message is still consistant. You don't like what he has done, good - neither do I. You think he should recluse himself from talk radio? In my mind, he would have been more credible if he would. Does the conservative position on morality become void because Rush Transgressed with drug abuse after espousing against it?

According to you, yes, morality as Rush espoused is null and void because Rush couldn't hold himself to his own standards.

If you don't think much of morality because Rush spoke of it, then why is the term Hipocrite even in your vocabulary. Shouldn't it be a moot point?

What other view of Rush's do you not think much of because Rush is a Hipocrite? Parental responsibility? I suppose you are one of those who feel that it's the state's responsibility to provide for the deludge of behaviorly handicapped kids in the public school system who can't stop throwing desks across the room. I suppose you think that it's a good thing that school systems should funnel large portions of their budgets into funds to pay for seperate facilities for SBH students, special teachers to calm them down, additional conselors to dialog with the parents and lawyers to defend the schools when the parents get pissed off when their kids are fixed and they no longer get the additional services which allow the parents to further skirt their part of raising the kid. Remember, Rush pushed parental responsibility in raising children, so that's a dumb view now cause Rush does drugs.

All the while I have to pay more for my kids (who behave in class) to be in sports, drama and other events because the SBH program needed the money more. And that new industrial arts facility and chemistry lab, forget it. We had to buy 2 special busses to transport the SBH'ers to and from school because they are unable to sit still for an entire bus route like the rest of the kids. But there's nothing wrong with kids throwing desks cause Rush does drugs.

How about another of Rush's views do you not think much of. Public decency? So when a kid shows up for school with a shirt that says ***k You on the front, they should be allowed to wear it as their freedom of speech expression. And if the school sends the student home because he refuses to turn the shirt inside out, you probably support sueing the school and bringing in the ACLU to raise a publicity stink. You should wear whatever you want reguardless of it's level of debauchery because Rush does drugs.

I don't think your beef is with Rush's message. I think your beef is with any message that goes against absolute freedom with no restraint.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 4:01 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by zephyr, posted 11-18-2003 5:36 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded
 Message 22 by Rei, posted 11-18-2003 5:40 PM Lizard Breath has responded
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 8:39 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 2044 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 21 of 49 (67504)
11-18-2003 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 5:22 PM


Re: Yep, that's it,
Help, the strawmen are coming!!!

Way to shamelessly exaggerate a position you don't know much about. I await crash's clarification of his views, since your dramatic representation thereof is lamentable.

As far as its relevance to this thread, whether Rush lives the beliefs he espouses is of central importance, as we are talking about the subject of a book: the dishonesty of celebrated proponents of political conservatism, Rush included. The validity and usefulness of their views are of secondary importance here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 5:22 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 4507 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 22 of 49 (67506)
11-18-2003 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 5:22 PM


Re: Yep, that's it,
quote:
That's the message of the left if you don't already recognise it. You know, what the President does on his own time is of no consequence to the job or message they espouse.

Ah, like spending all of his time fundraising, or taking near record amounts of vacation?

quote:
All the while I have to pay more for my kids (who behave in class) to be in sports, drama and other events because the SBH program needed the money more. And that new industrial arts facility and chemistry lab, forget it. We had to buy 2 special busses to transport the SBH'ers to and from school because they are unable to sit still for an entire bus route like the rest of the kids. But there's nothing wrong with kids throwing desks cause Rush does drugs.

I'll take it that you (like Rush) has never actually looked at the cost of dealing with behaviorally handicapped students, or the actual rate of lawsuits?

It's easy for people like Rush to pontificate when they don't do research.

quote:
How about another of Rush's views do you not think much of. Public decency? So when a kid shows up for school with a shirt that says ***k You on the front, they should be allowed to wear it as their freedom of speech expression. And if the school sends the student home because he refuses to turn the shirt inside out, you probably support sueing the school and bringing in the ACLU to raise a publicity stink. You should wear whatever you want reguardless of it's level of debauchery because Rush does drugs.

And if it was a shirt that in big letters proclaimed, "Jesus Died For Your Sins", your stance would be... ?

quote:
I don't think your beef is with Rush's message. I think your beef is with any message that goes against absolute freedom with no restraint.

Democrats are for absolute freedom with no restraint? Tell that to the NRA.

You do realize that Rush does almost no research, right? That he regularly repeats things that he has been corrected on several times? Here, let me give you a well referenced statistical primer about the Reagan years, for example, so that you can consult it whenever he makes his ludicrous claims again. Here's a list of corrections to him on the environment. Hmm, what other topics should I include? Well, I'll just give you a general correction page to his show - read through at least some of them, such as "The Way Things Aren't". Of course, my pages are all referenced. I doubt Rush has touched a scientific journal in his life apart from to skim for out of context quotes.

------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 5:22 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 6:27 PM Rei has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5276
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 23 of 49 (67507)
11-18-2003 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 3:15 PM


Re: Party line
I dig talk radio as a whole.

Had God intended for us to listen to talk radio, He would not have given us the electric guitar.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 3:15 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 24 of 49 (67511)
11-18-2003 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Mammuthus
11-18-2003 4:34 AM


quote:
The only problem with Franken's book is it starts out really funny but then as you think about the content, it really is not very funny at all and in fact what it says about the U.S. today is sadly accurate and horrible.

I had the exact same emotional reaction.

It's kind of the point, though.

Somebody has to tell us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Mammuthus, posted 11-18-2003 4:34 AM Mammuthus has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 25 of 49 (67519)
11-18-2003 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 2:37 PM


Re: Big fat idiot,
quote:
Now I'm sure he has tempered his judgements concerning those caught in drug abuse situations since his own experience with it. People do learn and change from time to time and is not limited to liberals.

Yeah, as soon as something happens to HIM, he changes.

It is far more often the conservatives who are shown to be the hypocrites.

Rush was a big dope fiend, and was possibly dealing out of his home while sumultaneously condemning drug users and saying that they should all go to jail.

Bennett went on and on with his self-righteous "Book of Virtues", yet was found to have racked up large gambling debts.

Liberals tend to be better able to put themselves in others' shoes; they tend to be able to feel compassion for other people and think, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

quote:
I bet those 5 weeks gave him lots of time to eat crow buffet as he replayed some of his statements.

I wouldn't be so sure. I'll bet he wouldn't have thought about his statements at all if they hadn't been handed back to him on a platter.

He, along with most of the current gaggle of conservative talk show hosts, is not particularly interested in accuracy or in doing things like research.

quote:
Even though he admits to being powerless over the drug he was using, he still would be against the idea passing out clean needles to heroine addicts.

Then he's an idiot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 2:37 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 26 of 49 (67521)
11-18-2003 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 3:15 PM


Re: Party line
quote:
I view much of what he says as something to ponder and find that the conservative points he makes concerning morality are close to my own.

Yet, he is a liar.

Do you think lying is moral?

He is also very sloppy and presents material in an intentionally misleading way in order to advance the agenda of the Radical Right wing of the Republican Party.

do you think this is moral behavior as well?

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/limbaugh-debates-reality.html#student-loans

[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-18-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 3:15 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

    
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 27 of 49 (67522)
11-18-2003 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Rei
11-18-2003 5:40 PM


Re: Yep, that's it,
Go ahead and tell us how much you know about the cost of SBH'ers and what little effect they have on school budgets. You are accussing me of being like Rush on this and not knowing what I am talking about so go ahead and show the figures of how inconsequential SBH'ers are financially to school budgets.

Here's the situation where I'm at.

11 SBH kids divided into 2 classrooms in a seperate new building.

State requires no more than 6 in a class for middle school.

2 SBH teachers
2 SBH teacher's aids
1 special aid conselor
1 special aid district administrator
2 SBH busses
2 additional bus drivers
2 aids riding on the busses at all times (1 one each bus)
1 nurse's aid with primary responsibility of administering the prescriptions to the special ed students (she has other functions but if it weren't for the special ed, she wouldn't be there).
1 assistant principal who's primary function last year dealt with meetings with the SBH parents.
4 lawsuits all dealing with the reclassification of a student into special ed. (in one year)
2-3 meetings a week involving the parents, district special ed administrator, special ed teacher, special ed supervisor, special aid conselor and occasionally a private psychologist paid for by the school system and substitute certified special ed teachers to cover the classrooms while the primary special ed teacher was in the meeting.

I'm not going to equate "Jesus died for your sins" with "***k You" since I won't even type the whole phase out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Rei, posted 11-18-2003 5:40 PM Rei has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Rei, posted 11-18-2003 6:56 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 4507 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 28 of 49 (67525)
11-18-2003 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 6:27 PM


Re: Yep, that's it,
quote:
Go ahead and tell us how much you know about the cost of SBH'ers and what little effect they have on school budgets.

Since you've neglected to fill in your location blank in your profile, I can only speak in general terms and not address your specific district. Let's pick some random school district whose budget we can see, and see how much of their money gets spent on SBH:

http://perrynet.stark.k12.oh.us/board/minutes/M12182001.htm
Total monthly bills for November approved by the Perry Local School Board: $2,895,187.96; their yearly cost for SBH: $186,120.00. SBH percentage of total costs: 0.6%. SBH students typically cost 1.5 to 2 times as much as normal students, so that's a savings of, at best, 0.3% if you were to cut it all.

They're hardly breaking the bank - or, to quote you, forcing you to "pay more for my kids (who behave in class) to be in sports, drama and other events". It's easy to rail against groups you don't like, but that doesn't solve your problems.

Yes, they cost more *per student*, but they're a tiny percentage of total costs. If you're saying that all students should receive the exact same monetary benefit, I don't think you'll like the results. Vocational student programs also cost more - should these be cut? Extracurricular activities cost more - should they be cut too?

quote:
I'm not going to equate "Jesus died for your sins" with "***k You" since I won't even type the whole phase out.

So, in short, you support free speech, but only when it's free speech that you agree with? That makes the term "free speech" almost oxymoronic.

------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

[This message has been edited by Rei, 11-18-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 6:27 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 8:15 PM Rei has responded

    
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 3505 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 29 of 49 (67543)
11-18-2003 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 3:15 PM


Re: Party line
quote:
"TOTALLY lacking the ability to consider his own prejudices" is absurd,

Why is it absurd? Can you give me a single example of Rush examining his own prejudices? You seem to think that going into addiction treatment after being exposed in the press as a drug abuser counts as an example. Pardon me if I don't.

I'm going out on a limb here. Surely, the man must be capable of this, right? Surely there must be one sure example of self-reflection on this man's part. One time where he said, "Gosh, I was wrong. I guess I was being just too darn knee-jerk conservative".

But I'll bet you a nickel you can't find any such public statement.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 3:15 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 30 of 49 (67555)
11-18-2003 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Rei
11-18-2003 6:56 PM


Free Speech
I use a litmus test for the Jesus T-shirt vs. The ***K YOU one. I admit that my litmus test is no longer acceptable in today's society and the ***K YOU Shirt is a celebration of free speech while the Jesus one is an obtrusive attempt to force one's religion down someone else's throat and therefore totally inapproriate.

In your Perry School System do you actually have SBH services there or is that money used to compensate another district that already has an established SBH program and Perry busses their SBH kids to them?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Rei, posted 11-18-2003 6:56 PM Rei has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Rei, posted 11-18-2003 8:38 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
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