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Author Topic:   "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
Rei
Member (Idle past 4368 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 31 of 49 (67562)
11-18-2003 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 8:15 PM


Re: Free Speech
quote:
I use a litmus test for the Jesus T-shirt vs. The ***K YOU one. I admit that my litmus test is no longer acceptable in today's society and the ***K YOU Shirt is a celebration of free speech while the Jesus one is an obtrusive attempt to force one's religion down someone else's throat and therefore totally inapproriate.

No. One is not better than the other. One is something *you* agree with, and one is something that *you* disagree with. But they're both speech. Free speech. It is hypocritical to preach "free speech" when it's something that you approve of, and then fully oppose it when it's something you disapprove of. That's not free speech - that's censorship. You need to apply things equally - even if it's going to be "equal censorship".

quote:
In your Perry School System do you actually have SBH services there or is that money used to compensate another district that already has an established SBH program and Perry busses their SBH kids to them?

Perry contracts with the Stark County Educational Service Center. Of course, it's mostly irrelevant, because most of the cost of dealing with students of any type is incremental.

If you can tell me where you live,I can see if I can track down your school district's budget. I can't make any guarantees, but I can try.

P.S.: You may find this interesting. You'll never see people like Jerry Falwell support the ACLU in preventing discrimination of non-Christians and non-Jews, but....

ACLU offers to support Rev. Falwell (in reference to Virginia laws about how much property a church can own) (together, they won the case).

Jewish Student Allowed to Wear Star of David Pendant (the school classified it as a gang symbol)

(want more?)

------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

[This message has been edited by Rei, 11-18-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 8:15 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 9:01 PM Rei has not yet responded

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 49 (67563)
11-18-2003 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 5:22 PM


Rush has issues, but his message is still consistant.

So what? What does it matter of he has a consistent message if it's a message that's irrelevant to life? Even Rush can't live by his own message. Why take it seriously, then?

According to you, yes, morality as Rush espoused is null and void because Rush couldn't hold himself to his own standards.

His morality, yes. If his moral code can't be succesfully followed, even by himself, then what good is it?

The rest of your straw men aren't even worth bothering with. Why don't you try to find out what I believe before telling me I'm wrong about it?

I think your beef is with any message that goes against absolute freedom with no restraint.

Wrong again, chief. My beef is against hypocritical moralists that think nothing of condemning others for the very behaviors they themselves are guilty of. If Rush's moral code is unlivable, what's the relevance? Again, why admire a man who espouses a strict moral code if there's absolutely no consequences to doing so?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 5:22 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 8:57 PM crashfrog has responded

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4050 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 33 of 49 (67568)
11-18-2003 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by crashfrog
11-18-2003 8:39 PM


I admire the code and find value in trying to live by something similiar but not because Rush says so. I admire the fact that Rush stays on center with his platform instead of swaying. I didn't say that I admire the man although I can see how that could be inferred. I don't hate him either but I don't tie the code he alluded to with him. He fell pretty hard but that doesn't nullify the idea of morality or any other concept he talks about. Again, the politics of him are over the top for me but some of his life concepts were worthy of ponder even if they are idealistic at best.

And hey chief, you seem to want me to learn whatever is is that you believe before I make broad accusations. Fair enough, I will wait until I learn more about you before I comment in that area and apologise for the broad sweeps towards you, but you also inferred that I was giving Rush a blank get out of jail free check which implies I'm a wishy washy Right Wing Lemming. You could wait and learn more about me before you try to put words in my mouth as well.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 8:39 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 9:07 PM Lizard Breath has responded

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4050 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 34 of 49 (67571)
11-18-2003 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Rei
11-18-2003 8:38 PM


Re: Free Speech
How many students are you sending to Stark County this year?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Rei, posted 11-18-2003 8:38 PM Rei has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 49 (67574)
11-18-2003 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 8:57 PM


I admire the code and find value in trying to live by something similiar but not because Rush says so.

Well, that's fine. I'm of the opinion that you're talking about an unlivable and therefore invalid moral code. Rush's own actions are evidence of this to me. But it's your choice to continue to follow it.

I admire the fact that Rush stays on center with his platform instead of swaying.

And I see that as evidence of inflexibility, which I don't associate with intellegence.

Fair enough, I will wait until I learn more about you before I comment in that area and apologise for the broad sweeps towards you, but you also inferred that I was giving Rush a blank get out of jail free check which implies I'm a wishy washy Right Wing Lemming.

I never said anything of the kind. I merely questioned your statements that it didn't matter what Rush did, only that the views that he espoused never changed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 8:57 PM Lizard Breath has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 9:32 PM crashfrog has responded

  
Lizard Breath
Member (Idle past 4050 days)
Posts: 376
Joined: 10-19-2003


Message 36 of 49 (67580)
11-18-2003 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
11-18-2003 9:07 PM


Quotes
quote:
So what you're saying is that it doesn't matter what moral views Limbaugh himself holds, just so long as the views he espouses never changes.

OK Chief, whatever you say. But as I read this it says to me that Rush is above the law as long as he tells me what I want to hear, and it don't matter what he does cause he's fight'n fer the good guys.

I'm not so narrow minded as to not hold the guy accountable and the way I do that is by cutting back my time I give his show.

If you're above admitting that was a dig, then I've just learned a bunch about you already.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 9:07 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 9:49 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 49 (67583)
11-18-2003 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Lizard Breath
11-18-2003 9:32 PM


If you're above admitting that was a dig, then I've just learned a bunch about you already.

It wasn't a "dig" but rather the natural interpretation of these statements of yours:

quote:
I said that you can look at his platform (which I should have said his VOCAL BROADCAST MESSAGE) and know where he stands on any issue. If he fails to apply his own message to himself, that makes him a hippocrite but doesn't change his VOCAL BROADCAST MESSAGE.

Now me, I judge moral codes by the results they have. The result of Rush's personal application of his moral code does not reccommend that code to me. But perhaps you judge moral codes in a different way.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Lizard Breath, posted 11-18-2003 9:32 PM Lizard Breath has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2003 12:20 AM crashfrog has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8751
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 38 of 49 (67617)
11-19-2003 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by crashfrog
11-18-2003 9:49 PM


I don't completely agree with you Crash.

I think someone can state a clear moral code that when examined and the effects of it considered would make sense. If it is hard to follow that doesn't make it bad.

Even if the individual espousing it messes up that doesn't mean it is wrong. Now, if no one can manage it then you have a point.

But I consider myself to be kind and honest. But I'm not perfect. But I don't discard the idea of being kind and honest because of that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2003 9:49 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Mammuthus, posted 11-19-2003 5:22 AM NosyNed has not yet responded
 Message 44 by crashfrog, posted 11-19-2003 3:21 PM NosyNed has not yet responded
 Message 45 by Loudmouth, posted 11-19-2003 4:04 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
sidelined 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 39 of 49 (67630)
11-19-2003 12:58 AM


It is probably just my experience that leads me to this conclusion but it has been my observation of others[and myself as well] that moral codes not only vary from person to person but each person also shows a different 'mask' dependant on the people we are with.

I find that I do not look to trust a person on the basis of the 'mask'which I guess is another name for ego but rather I follow their day to day dealings with different situations and see how they handle themselves.I am quite forgiving of those flaws I see in myself and less forgiving of those I don't.I suppose that may be the reason we gravitate to people with similar interests.

I am certain that people are far too sure of what they think they would or would not be morally capable of in this country since the fact of the matter is that we have nothing to complain about when you get right down to it.I think if we had to trade places with others in war torn countries with daily violence a fact of life we might find our illusions shattered.


Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2003 1:10 AM sidelined has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8751
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 40 of 49 (67633)
11-19-2003 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by sidelined
11-19-2003 12:58 AM


I agree with you. We all have different things, good and bad, buried in us. We don't know all of what is there.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by sidelined, posted 11-19-2003 12:58 AM sidelined has not yet responded

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 3830 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 41 of 49 (67656)
11-19-2003 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by NosyNed
11-19-2003 12:20 AM


quote:
But I consider myself to be kind and honest. But I'm not perfect. But I don't discard the idea of being kind and honest because of that.

However, you do not require an ignorant talk radio host to dictate morality to you. I also doubt you tell people who disagree with being kind and honest that they are stupid jackasses who should be thrown out of the country. That Rush is a twit who does not practice what he preaches and wears his failure to research his positions as a badge of honor does not make everything he supports wrong. But it makes him a hypocrite and makes those who still consider him an authority on morality rather lazy in their self analysis. I find his hypocrisy highly amusing if not completely expected.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2003 12:20 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Dan Carroll 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1921 days)
Posts: 2904
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 42 of 49 (67697)
11-19-2003 10:42 AM


Oh dear oh dear oh dear... Rush, Rush, Rush...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/rush_limbaugh_031118-1.html


Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2003 11:08 AM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

    
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8751
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 43 of 49 (67708)
11-19-2003 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Dan Carroll
11-19-2003 10:42 AM


My impression from the article is that he might be charged with money laundering his own money! That strikes me as wrong. I thought the intent of the money laundering laws was to reduce the ease of handling illegally optained money not the possible illegal use of your own legal money.

If he was buying drugs illegally that they can charge him with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Dan Carroll, posted 11-19-2003 10:42 AM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 49 (67758)
11-19-2003 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by NosyNed
11-19-2003 12:20 AM


But I consider myself to be kind and honest. But I'm not perfect. But I don't discard the idea of being kind and honest because of that.

Sure. But I imagine your moral code has tolerance for when you fail to be kind and honest.

Any reasonable moral code includes an expectation of tolerance for occasional failure. Rush's didn't. He espoused a no-tolerance policy for drugs. Turns out that that's unlivable, at least for him. Now, will he amend his views to include a little tolerance for people struggling with addiction? That would be uncharacteristically forward-thinking for Rush.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2003 12:20 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 49 (67773)
11-19-2003 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by NosyNed
11-19-2003 12:20 AM


I think someone can state a clear moral code that when examined and the effects of it considered would make sense. If it is hard to follow that doesn't make it bad.

I'm agreeing with Ted on this one (and not because he is the new admin). If anything, it makes Rush a little more human, gives him a view into addiction than a lot of people on the right for example.

However, stating that America would improve if Rush's brand of morality was imposed on the public seems a bit flimsy at the moment. We are still human, afterall. This is perhaps the best lesson Rush could learn and it will be interesting how this comes across in his rhetoric for the next few years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2003 12:20 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2003 8:27 AM Loudmouth has not yet responded

  
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