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Author Topic:   Mimicry and neodarwinism
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 188 (345470)
08-31-2006 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by MartinV
08-31-2006 12:30 PM


Just a couple questions
you in msg 8 writes:
I suppose that all these examples represnts a problem for neodarwinism. It is - for me - hard to believe, that mechanism behind this phenomenon is neodarwistic random mutation and selection.
Do you think that a phenomenon that is a 'problem' for neodarwinism somehow discredits everything it claims?
Do you have an alternative explanation for the phenomenon?
Why do you have a problem with neodarwinism? (other than the mimicry thing)
Do you realize that the difficulty to believe something has no affect on its truth value?
Do you realize that you are arguing from incredulity?
Other than these questions I was wondering about, you seem to have done a decent job of exemplifying a phenomenon that is difficult to explain with neodarwinism. IMHO, that doesn't count as any falsification, just an example where more effort could be placed.

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by MartinV, posted 08-31-2006 12:30 PM MartinV has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 188 (347306)
09-07-2006 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by MartinV
09-07-2006 12:52 PM


I was gonna get involved in this thread but had some questions for you first in Message 15. If you could answer those, even though they might be OT, I'd be more inclined to discuss this with you. I haven't read the rest of the thread yet though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by MartinV, posted 09-07-2006 12:52 PM MartinV has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by MartinV, posted 09-07-2006 3:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 188 (347311)
09-07-2006 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by MartinV
09-07-2006 3:29 PM


Butterflies mimicry and realm of insects put before us puzzles, that can be hardly explained by RM/NS mechanism except one believe strongly in darwinism.
emphasis added
Well, at least there is an explanation. What is your explanation? Just point me to the post if you've already wrte it. All in all, it still seems like you are arguing from incredulity.
Do you think that a phenomenon that is a 'problem' for neodarwinism somehow discredits everything it claims?
Do you have an alternative explanation for the phenomenon?
Why do you have a problem with neodarwinism? (other than the mimicry thing)
Do you realize that the difficulty to believe something has no affect on its truth value?
Do you realize that you are arguing from incredulity?
Other than these questions I was wondering about, you seem to have done a decent job of exemplifying a phenomenon that is difficult to explain with neodarwinism. IMHO, that doesn't count as any falsification, just an example where more effort could be placed.

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by MartinV, posted 09-07-2006 3:29 PM MartinV has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by MartinV, posted 09-07-2006 4:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 188 (347321)
09-07-2006 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by MartinV
09-07-2006 4:02 PM


So you're not going to offer a different explanation, you're just going to say that the current explanation does not convince you, so therefore it must be wrong. Unfornunately, for you, that is a logical fallacy and you're convincing no-one.
Finding one example of something that is difficult to explain with a theory does not invalidate the rest of the theory's explanations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by MartinV, posted 09-07-2006 4:02 PM MartinV has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Muhd, posted 09-07-2006 5:22 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 58 by subbie, posted 09-07-2006 5:31 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 188 (347337)
09-07-2006 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Muhd
09-07-2006 5:22 PM


For those of us who have not been indoctrinated into believing the theory, it is just one more reason not to believe.
You shouldn't need reasons to not believe. Not believing should be the default position until the theory is convincing. Look at all the explanations that the theory does offer and judge it on those, not just the areas where there is still difficulties. If you judge the theory only by the difficult areas, then I'd say you have a motive before you began. If you have a motive and start with finding reasons to not believe, then you're not being honest with yourself. But you can do whatever you want, and be as honest as you want, especially with yourself. Just don't push your own self-dishonesty onto other people and we'll all live happily ever after.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Muhd, posted 09-07-2006 5:22 PM Muhd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Muhd, posted 09-08-2006 12:49 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 188 (347525)
09-08-2006 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Muhd
09-08-2006 12:49 AM


quote:
Not believing should be the default position until the theory is convincing.
Right. So Evolution should be disregarded as a valid theory because it only accounts for a very small part of the evidence.
Well, if thats how your logic works then I can understand why you disbelieve evolution.
Here, let me fix the errors you made in that statement.
quote:
Evolution should be disregarded as a valid theory because it only accounts for a very small part of the evidence.
Evolution should be regarded as a valid theory because it accounts for the evidence.(ie it is convincing)
Now you're starting to make some sense

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Muhd, posted 09-08-2006 12:49 AM Muhd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Muhd, posted 09-12-2006 1:01 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

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