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Author Topic:   Land Mammal to Whale transition: fossils
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 22 of 302 (229560)
08-04-2005 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by randman
08-03-2005 7:27 PM


Some actual answers for you
Specifically, how many speciation events would be needed to take place to evolve a land mammal to a genuine whale?
We don't know.
And how many mutations necessary to create a single speciation event?
Good question. I'm sure, once we have come to understand the genome we'll be able to come up with a minimum number and perhaps a maximum number too. However, I suspect that the answers are going to vary from species to species individual to individual. In short, we don't know.
Let's call these speciation events "steps". I would think evolutionists, considering their dogmatism, would have fairly full theories as to the needed steps involved, with considerable range of course.
The answer here is simple, either evolutionist's dogma is ill placed or there is no dogma in evolutionists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by randman, posted 08-03-2005 7:27 PM randman has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 105 of 302 (230003)
08-05-2005 2:59 AM


What I have learned
Reading the posts here I have learned stuff. Let's see:
1. The predictive power of ToE. It was able to predict that certain species existed before any physical evidence of their existence was apparant.
2. We don't the exact path that whale evolution took.
3. We are currently unable to determine what is the minimum/maximum number of mutations are needed for two creatures to become reproductively incompatible.
4. Because of 2 and 3 we can conclude we don't know how representative the fossil record is of the whale's evolutionary path.
I think this highlights a) How ToE's predictive power was tested and succeeded; Strengthening the theory and b) there is a lot of unanswered questions with regard quantifications that would be interesting to see done.
Thanks to randman and Chiroptera for that.

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by robinrohan, posted 08-05-2005 8:25 AM Modulous has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 234 of 302 (230502)
08-06-2005 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by randman
08-06-2005 3:28 PM


Re: A problem with "events"
Ever hear of Punctuated Equilibrium?
I have, did you ever hear that the people that formulated stated that it was mutually exclusive to gradualism?
It was put forth because the evidence is strongly against the type of gradualism that you guys think of as evolutution.
It was put forth because the fossil record seemed to indicate that there was long periods of time with very little divergence punctuated with periods of relatively rapid divergence.
I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking, but do you associate PE with saltationism?
If you don't then I provide this link for the benefits of the other readers, and yourself, if you are interested.
Punctuated Equilibrium

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by randman, posted 08-06-2005 3:28 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
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