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Author Topic:   You're either straight, gay, or lying?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 158 (405898)
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


First of all, look at the following NYtimes article.
quote:
But a new study casts doubt on whether true bisexuality exists, at least in men.
The study, by a team of psychologists in Chicago and Toronto, lends support to those who have long been skeptical that bisexuality is a distinct and stable sexual orientation.
People who claim bisexuality, according to these critics, are usually homosexual, but are ambivalent about their homosexuality or simply closeted. "You're either gay, straight or lying," as some gay men have put it.
In the new study, a team of psychologists directly measured genital arousal patterns in response to images of men and women. The psychologists found that men who identified themselves as bisexual were in fact exclusively aroused by either one sex or the other, usually by other men.
I have some gay friends that consistently insist that bisexuality is just an unstable phase and that people would eventually grow out of it. I personally don't know.
So, does bisexuality actually a stable, permanent phase or is it a transitional phase in life?
Ahem *molbigirl* {cough cough}


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

Replies to this message:
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 Message 8 by mark24, posted 06-15-2007 7:30 PM Taz has replied
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 06-15-2007 9:54 PM Taz has replied
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 06-16-2007 6:43 AM Taz has not replied
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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 158 (405910)
06-15-2007 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


I think some surveys like this are skewed. I think it's probably true that many, if not most, men who identify as bi are really gay, but I think there's also a lot of men who identify as straight who sometimes have gay sex. Maybe some of those men should really identify as bisexual. I doubt they do, though.

W.W.E.D.?

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Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 3 of 158 (405914)
06-15-2007 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by berberry
06-15-2007 1:36 PM


Maybe some of those men should really identify as bisexual. I doubt they do, though.
Hi there!
I think it's probably true that many, if not most, men who identify as bi are really gay
I know a plenty bi men and even more bi women. I can guarantee I'm not gay, and neither are any of them.

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 4 of 158 (405920)
06-15-2007 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


Ahem *molbigirl* {cough cough}
Well, without looking around a bit in pubmed, I can only speak from experience.
I don't know any bi boys. I know lots of bi girls. And most bi girls I know are just a smidge gay or straight ... some like boys just a bit more and some like girls just a bit more.
ABE
Only 1/3 of lesbian respondents stated that they were 100% attracted to women. The remainder ranged from 50 to 95 percent attracted to women, tending strongly toward a predominance of homosexual over heterosexual feelings. In contrast, bisexual respondents covered the entire range of feelings of sexual attraction, excluding both extremes of 100% attraction to either sex. Homosexual and heterosexual feelings were not equally distributed among bisexual respondents; 61% reported predominantly homosexual feelings while 22% reported predominantly heterosexual feelings. In sum, exclusively homosexual feelings were unique to lesbian respondents and predominantly heterosexual feelings were unique to bisexual respondents. However, most lesbian respondents and most bisexual respondents shared a nonexclusive preference for women.
The Politics of Sexual Identity: Sexual Attraction and Behavior among Lesbian and Bisexual Women
Paula C. Rust
Social Problems, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Nov., 1992), pp. 366-386
Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 158 (405932)
06-15-2007 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by molbiogirl
06-15-2007 1:55 PM


Only 1/3 of lesbian respondents stated that they were 100% attracted to women. The remainder ranged from 50 to 95 percent attracted to women,...
Now where is the result of lesbian respondance and their attraction to men? Isn't this biased data reporting? Or bad question? One could be attracted to every single woman and still find some men attractive.
Edited by RAZD, : added

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2642 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 6 of 158 (405937)
06-15-2007 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
06-15-2007 3:02 PM


Now where is the result of lesbian respondance and their attraction to men?
If I'm reading this paper right, it sounds like "50 to 95 percent attracted to women" means the remainder of the lesbians (the other 2/3s) ranged from 50% attracted to women (it's a toss up ... they like men and women equally) to 95% attracted to women (95% of time attracted to women and 5% of time attracted to men).

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 158 (405940)
06-15-2007 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by molbiogirl
06-15-2007 3:13 PM


it sounds like "50 to 95 percent attracted to women" means the remainder of the lesbians (the other 2/3s) ranged from 50% attracted to women (it's a toss up ... they like men and women equally)...
But I don't see 100% attracted to women as being exclusive of being attracted to men. Maybe it's just the way I read it, but I see it as possible to be 100% plus 25% men.
If that's what they mean then it is worded badly ... IMH(ysa)O
{abe} In other words there is ALSO a scale of how much you are attracted to other people that is being ignored here. Some "loners" are attracted to very few people and some "wild extroverts" are attracted to just about everyone. {/abe}
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5196 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 8 of 158 (405979)
06-15-2007 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


Hi Taz,
I have some gay friends that consistently insist that bisexuality is just an unstable phase and that people would eventually grow out of it.
Why would they insist that?
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

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Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 9 of 158 (405989)
06-15-2007 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by mark24
06-15-2007 7:30 PM


mark24 writes:
Why would they insist that?
You're asking me?


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by mark24, posted 06-15-2007 7:30 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 158 (405998)
06-15-2007 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


getitng sprung
Taz writes:
In the new study, a team of psychologists directly measured genital arousal patterns in response to images of men and women.
Is that all they are going on? Genital arousal patterns? sheesh.
Sexuality is a lot more than arousal patterns.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 06-15-2007 1:04 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 06-15-2007 10:57 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 16 by nator, posted 06-17-2007 8:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 11 of 158 (406002)
06-15-2007 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
06-15-2007 9:54 PM


Re: getitng sprung
Phat, do you have to comment on everything about everything?


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 06-15-2007 9:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 12 of 158 (406015)
06-16-2007 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


When people go around denying the existence of things that observably exist then they are wrong. It's that simple.
I know plenty of people, men and women, are are attracted to and sleep with, both men and women. What more do you need to establish the existence of bisexuality?

This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 13 of 158 (406078)
06-16-2007 6:56 PM


Flawed sexuality or flawed study?
Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, and a whole lot of other Greeks and Romans were actively bisexual. Also, bisexuality has been extensively observed in other species and often commented on in this forum. Hard to believe that this is all due to closeting or self deception. It seems that such overwhelming evidence for real bisexuality calls the methodology of this particular study into question. I always have doubts about such studies that use simplistic measures for very complex behaviors. In particular, restricting arousal to visual inputs while ignoring smell and touch seems to restrict any possible conclusions. Also, maybe the females whose pictures were shown just weren't the bisexual subjects type. I'm a heterosexual (if memory serves), but very few females (homo sapiens) turn me on.
As for Phat's comment:
Sexuality is a lot more than arousal patterns.
(post no. 10)
Well, no. Sexuality is exactly arousal patterns. But arousal can refer to a hole lot of stuff other than genitals, which is probably what this study was restricted to.

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 14 of 158 (406101)
06-16-2007 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
06-15-2007 1:04 PM


it occurred to me that a friend of mine who is gay once said that he rarely achieves an erection. i wonder if this is because he generally 'receives' and doesn't like penile stimulation. so. i wonder if bisexual men might tend to receive and maybe thus not have a need to get a measurable "genital" response to pornographic images of men.
but i haven't known a lot of bisexual people in general, so i can't give any anecdotal evidence.

This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 158 (406102)
06-16-2007 11:41 PM


LGBT Pride Month - (no, not a sandwich).
Is it irony, coincidence, or design that this topic is posted right in the middle of LGBT "Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Pride Month" (google on it)? Perhaps to answer all these questions we can go right to the horse's mouth (no pun intended - well, maybe a tiny pun).

Replies to this message:
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