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Author | Topic: Any good books against ID? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
Most anti-creationist books take on YEC. Anybody know good books against ID? YEC is easy to take out, however, ID is harder. I need suggestions.
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Most anti-creationist books take on YEC. Anybody know good books against ID? YEC is easy to take out, however, ID is harder. I need suggestions.
--You think ID is harder to take out? You must either be implying that taking out young earth creationism is tinker-toys or something, becuase simply put, ID is subjective, nothing more needed accept sit back and wait for them to bring it to you. At least this is my observation on the case for ID. --As for the Anti-ID book, I don't think I know of any. I don't know of any off the top of my head that are pro-ID either though.. ------------------ [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 06-18-2002] [This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 06-18-2002]
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5893 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Andya, I don't know of any books that have been written against ID per se, although I've seen a lot of articles. Here's a rare find: an article written for publication in a peer-reviewed science journal shredding Dembski's explanatory filter: The advantages of theft over toil: the design inference and arguing from ignorance by Wilkins and Elsberry. I don't know how long the link will be up - as soon as Bio Phil publishes it, the link will come down for copyright reasons.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5893 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Take it easy, TC. Read Andya's OP again. He merely pointed out that most of the popular press anti-creationist books published so far are aimed at the YECs. My guess is that the reason is the YECs have been at it longer than the IDists. He made no value judgements concerning "ease of refutation" or whatever you were getting upset about.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5893 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
I just remembered that Pennock wrote a book called "Tower of Babel" that was directed against ID. There are probably others out there, now that I think about it.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Andya, you've indicated that you've read Miller's Finding Darwin's God. In it, he discusses the failings of a couple of varieties of ID. I, personally, don't see why any more need be said.
As a side note:It seems that Behe's perspective of ID is very, very close to being a variety of theistic evolution. As I see it, Behe is all but a mainstream evolutionist. Moose ------------------BS degree, geology, '83 Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Old Earth evolution - Yes Godly creation - Maybe
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TrueCreation Inactive Member |
"Take it easy, TC. Read Andya's OP again. He merely pointed out that most of the popular press anti-creationist books published so far are aimed at the YECs. My guess is that the reason is the YECs have been at it longer than the IDists. He made no value judgements concerning "ease of refutation" or whatever you were getting upset about."
--Well I wasn't upset in the least, just a bit surprized. Even then I see that I misinterpreted his post. Sorry there ------------------
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Philip Member (Idle past 4744 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
quote: Andya Primanda, ‘want to see innumerable ID proofs that blows away the Mega-ToE?
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Jeff Inactive Member |
Andya,
Have a look at the thread below...you may well write your own book exposing the insufficient logic behind ID. Heck, the IDists can't even define their assumptions, let alone substantiate them !
[b] [QUOTE]
Andya Primanda, ‘want to see innumerable ID Questions that ID CANNOT answer? [/b][/QUOTE] regards, jeff ------------------"Freedom of Religion" equates to Freedom -FROM- those religions we find unbelievable.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Philip:
Andya Primanda, ‘want to see innumerable ID proofs that blows away the Mega-ToE?[/B][/QUOTE] Good idea, Jeff! Now I can start refuting his 'proofs'. btw, Philip, nice try. However appealing to Christianity would not work for me. I am not one.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4744 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
quote: Not a Christian you tell the world? What are you, respectfully(besides evolved slime)?
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Jeff Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
btw, Philip, nice try. However appealing to Christianity would not work for me. I am not one. [b] Originally posted by Philip:Not a Christian you tell the world? What are you, respectfully(besides evolved slime)? [/QUOTE] [/b] Is there a pressing need to be more than evolved slime ?Is claiming to be human somehow ‘better than’ being slime ? -committed mass murder, -lied on its tax form -stole food from the poor, -polluted the ground water so babies were born without heads, -hunted Bison to near extinction -killed other slime for self interest You’re ignoring any good qualities that slime may possess because you havesome deeply rooted slime-o-phobia. What sort of descriptor were you seeking ? regards, jeff ------------------"Freedom of Religion" equates to Freedom -FROM- those religions we find unbelievable.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Philip:
Not a Christian you tell the world? What are you, respectfully(besides evolved slime)?[/B][/QUOTE] Evolved Muslim slime. Happy?
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Philip Member (Idle past 4744 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
quote: --Respectfully, Andya primanda; how can Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindoo, or other apperceptive conscious psyches (A.K.A. spiritual beings) possibly evolve from slime (i.e., naturalistic chemicals and elements)? I’m assuming you concede (at least) that you have an apperceptive conscious psyche. --If you don't concede that you have a soul, I invite you to critique my meager hypothesis here on the proof of your spiritual existence. Sincerely, Philip [This message has been edited by Philip, 06-26-2002]
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Tranquility Base Inactive Member |
Andya, I'm currently reading Behe and all he talks about is common sense so just look for books that violate common sense and you've found it.
Seriously, I truthfully believe you are on a futile path. The worlds of biochemistry and cell biology cry creation and design so loudly that it is not funny. Apologies in advance for my naivity, sentimentality and lack of sophistication. [This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 06-26-2002]
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