What evidence absolutely rules out a Creator

Unless He decided to create a perfectly imperfect world, eh?

Isn't this what we see anyway? Even without evolution...? And even if it's explained by The Fall, doesn't God allowing it to happen make Him cruel, thus invalidating his existence?

So what it is a perfect world in your eye? An artificial environment where all animals are living peacefully with each other while humans killing each other?If it's said that humans are more perfect if not because of the Fall, is it perfect to make animals even more perfect than humans *THEN*?This message has been edited by Hawkins, 03-13-2006 02:20 AM

If fossils say what we think they say, then evolution is true. Logical leap that lands you in hot water. You've just argued that the existence of animals disproves God. All animals feed off other life forms in order to survive. Herbivores eat plants, carnivores eat other animals. Who cares about the fossils - currently living animals are enough. So you made up a God, and disproved his existence. Now, JHWH, that jealous God who is Wrath, the one that asks for animal sacrifices - is he the kind of God who'd have a problem with a biological killing field? This is the kind oF God that allowed Job's life to get seriously screwed up, just to see if Job would curse his name.That kind of God is perfectly capable of making life on earth a killing field - just to see if we keep faith. Except that they only disprove your specific definition of God...not everyone's definition of God. You don't get to decide which definition of God is the right one I'm afraid.

robinrohan, are you arguing evolution disproves a general theistic God or specifically the God of the bible?

It is true that you are actually an 80 year old crossdressing midget at least though, isn't it?TTFN,WKThis message has been edited by Wounded King, 13-Mar-2006 11:53 AM

He might create a world with every intention of it being imperfect; he could specify whatever flaws he chose and therefore, the world would be perfectly imperfect according to his perfect specifications. By definition, he can do anything he pleases, including creating a world with specified flaws and imperfections.Why is that so hard to believe? Even a master artist knows how to paint a poor picture.

It disproves the general theistic God--the all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good God of Western tradition.And that's the only God worth any serious consideration.

Yes that is too hard to believe. It's completely illogical. A good God does good things; a perfect God does perfect things.

Is God so simple, in your view?How does it make sense to you that such a simpleton God could be the creator and manager of the universe?

I don't know why you do not believe in God, Crashfrog, but I suppose you have some reason. My own reason is that it seems obvious to me that life is accidental and arbitrary, full of needless pain. The only way one might explain this away is by invoking the concept of the Fall. But if evolution is true, there could be no Fall. Therefore, there is no God.

1) The Fall doesn't explain it. A good God would not have allowed the Fall.2) The Fall is not neccessary to explain it. Plenty of religions deal with the problem of evil in ways that don't even begin to involve the universe having fallen from some original perfect state due to man's actions. (Actually woman's actions, when you get down to it.)Defend atheism all you like but the specious reasoning does nobody any good.

It sounds like you're saying there's no God. Because... honestly, Faith, have you seen the world?Leaving violence and hatred aside for the time being, we live in a world that produces true horrors.

---

"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

My reasoning is not specious. It's rock solid. I got it all worked out in my mind.

God is consistent.