Intelligent design. Philosophy of ignorance.

However, John, we know that there is at least two ways to arrive at apparent design. Fortunatly, we are also able to examine the resulting designs and see that they are different when produced by the different methods. Living things are a very good match for the kinds of designs that we know for a fact are produced by processes that are NOT guided by intelligence of any kind.So from this knowledge of such processes and the type of designs produced we can indeed conclude as you note below.

quote:

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But when evolutionists look at the incredible design and complexity of macro and micro space, with all its myriad forms of plants, animals, and inorganic substances, they ever spend their finite lives to somehow conclude there is no Creator cause behind our existence.
  —John

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The "designs" you refer to here are exactly NOT like the designs created by humans and therefore it is certainly most reasonable to conclude that if there was a designer behind them it acts to produce designs which show all the hallmarks of designs that are produced by known evolutionary processes.We have good reasons and evidence for the conclusions we draw. All you have is an lack of understanding of the processes involved and all but the most superficial knowledge of the details of the resulting designs.You made no argument whatsoever. You simply drew and analogy between two different classes of things. You offer not reason at all to support that connection.Edited by NosyNed, : silly spelling

http://EvC Forum: Is Abiogenesis a fact? -->EvC Forum: Is Abiogenesis a fact?
http://EvC Forum: Is Abiogenesis a fact? -->EvC Forum: Is Abiogenesis a fact?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

So you concede that:
a. ID is merely creationism in disguise
2. "design requires a designer" is not a true statement.Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

Percy already responded quite well to these quotes above. You asked what the fuss was about. All I did was to give you a clear concise honest answer and you give me this condescending crap. I`m sorry to break the news, but you are completely deluded to include yourself in big people crowd when it comes to talking about what science is or isn`t. The hubris was disgusting.Edited by fallacycop, : fix quote boxes

So who designed the designer?A wise man once said, "There are two truths I know. There is a God, and I am not."Those that ask such questions are saying, "There is no God, but I am."

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

The basic principle of design works this way:Purpose/Plan Preceeds Product.When one looks as the wonders man has made, one does not usually wonder on the nature of man. When one looks as the wonders man has made, one usually reflects on the amazing creativeness man has to create such wonders that have benefited man through science and medicine. Man also has the ability to create things that can be used for both good or mis-used for evil.By the same token, when I think of the Intelligent Designer, I reflect on the Intelligent Designer's amazing creativeness to create such incredible cosmologies that mankind can use for good or for evil.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Hi John 10:10,This is actually a reply to NJ.Hey, NJ, where are ya? John 10:10 is posting message after message equating the designer with God. You say that ID has nothing to do with God. So what's the story?--Percy

Yes but you are only looking at the rainbow and sunset side. The example I gave had nothing to do with mankind's use for good or evil. John lets look at purpose, plan and product of just one of many examples.The Guinea Worm is a wonderfully designed parasite with a multi-step that involves humans and other mammals. The larvae of this marvelous creature infects tiny water fleas. When people drink the water with fleas and the guinea worm larvae the flea dies and releases the worm. The guinea worms matures in the intestines and eventually copulates. The male is absorbed by the female as she continues on her sinister purpose. The adult female is now full of thousands of tiny larvae. Starting from the small intestine she works her way thru the body.In the final stage, this yard long thin worms erupts from legs, feet and even eye sockets. As she forces her way out she exudes acid under the skin causing severe and searing pain.This pain drives the infected victim to seek relieve in the nearest pool of water, whereupon the worm discharges her load of larvae to start the cycle over again. Sometimes the worm dies in the victim as they attempt remove the worm. This can cause a painful death as the worm rots away.Check these links:Error - seattlepi.com
guinea worm - Google SearchThe creature described is wonderfully, incredibly and creatively “designed” to their purpose of propagation. This creature, and many others, are very specific to the task and did not just take up this way of life after some fall.The question, which you have avoided:If there is an Intelligent Designer what does this example convey about the designer?When you accept the Intelligent Design philosophy as a refuge from rational thought, you have accept the full consequence.Edited by iceage, : spelingEdited by iceage, : No reason given.Edited by Admin, : Reduce image size.

Fundamentalist Christians learn the answers to such conundrums in Sunday school. There are two possibilities:

1. God's purpose is not always revealed to us, but everything is part of his grand design.
   ​
2. It's the work of the devil.

To John 10:10: The whole purpose of ID is to gain a toehold in public schools by hiding and disguising all religious associations. Unabashedly conceding that the designer is God gains high marks for honesty, but it also concedes that ID is religion and not science. Since the goal of IDists is to get ID taught in public schools as a way of opposing evolution, they never publicly admit its underlying religious foundation.--Percy

so you're just gonna dodge the question.

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

I accept the Guinea Worm story you have spoken about (and many others you could give as examples) as being a prime example of living in a "fallen world" that is "not" how the Intelligent Designer designed the world to function in the beginning.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

The purpose of ID is simply to allow school children to consider an alternate reason behind why we exist, rather than "only" allowing evolution without ID to be taught as fact, when in fact evolution is far far from a proven fact.If evolutionists think evolution is not a religion, then they are sadly mistaken.Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.A religion does not have to believe in God to be a religion. Evolutionists certainly believe in set of beliefs concerning the cause and nature of the universe, although they have no answer for the purpose of the universe.The purpose of not allowing the possibility of ID to be taught as an alternate reason behind why we exist is so that the religion of evolutionists can be taught, to the exclusion of any other considerations.Edited by John 10:10, : No reason given.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

But this "fallen world" concept exists in christian mythology. Again you admit that ID is really christian creationism in disguise, I guess some christians have no problem with lying for jesus.

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Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

Well since the Theory of Evolution says nothing about the cause, nature, or purpose of the universe but rather only says something about the nature of life, it is not a religion by your own definition.

Nonsense. The purpose of the ID movement is to insert some picayune cartoon goddlet into science classes.What is so sad is not only is the ID movement not science, it is horrid theology. Anyone who supports ID where it considers individual critters to be the product of design must acknowledge that it makes the designer a buffoon and fool.Intelligent Design is not simply a "Philosophy of Ignorance" as mentioned in the topic title, it is a philosophy that diminishes GOD and relegates God to the status of a bumbling Gasoline Alley knucklebuster. That of course is also nonsense, the mutterings of someone who either has never considered the implications of the ID movement or who is unable to critically analyze such a statement.Evolution is NOT a religion. For one thing, unlike religions it is a conclusion based on evidence. Second, it is based on a lie, a BIG Lie. The lie is that it deals with the question of why we exist. Science doe not deal with issues such a purpose or why we exist. It does explain how we got to the current state. To imply that Evolution addresses why is just plain lying, there is no other possible explanation.ID, as commonly expressed is just plain stupid. Consider the following.There are many examples of well designed organs.

• there exists a brain that has a large computational capacity.
• there are examples of sight that extend from the infra red into the near ultraviolet.
• there are examples of hearing that extend from very low frequencies to very very high frequencies.
• there are examples of creatures that can control metabolism to the point that it is near death yet revert to an extremely high functional level on demand.
• there are creatures that can communicate in a real broadband fashion using light, for example some squid.
• there are examples of exceptional strength, speed and agility.
• there are examples of complete control over the individuals shape and pigmentation as seen in many octopuses.
• there are examples of critters that can mutate rapidly for higher survivability.

The list can go on and on, it is near endless.BUT...the designer was too stupid to either take all the great designs and build one critter that incorporated many of them, or even create ONE single critter that was not just a collection of barely good enough to survive traits.When we look at the universe, we don't see any examples of Intelligent Design. Perhaps we see Inept Design, Incompetent Design, Ineffective Design, Ill-favored Design, Ignorant Design, Inapt Design, Inadequate Design, Incapable Design (after all almost every design so far has failed), Irrelevant Design, Incapacitated Design or Insufficient Design.If we honestly look at the product we can say much about the designer.The designer is:

• Inept
• Incompetent
• Ineffective
• Ill-favored
• Ignorant
• Inapt
• Inadequate
• Incapable
• Irrelevant
• Incapacitated
• Insufficient

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion