Information and purpose or no purpose.

Admin:Oh mighty landmark... Thy word is truth!

Information theory is a human construction, so of course it isn't divorced from human concerns. I'm talking about what information theory says about information, which as described by information theory is divorced from human concerns of meaning and interpretation.Here's an example. Ask yourself what this means: It's just information. By itself it has no meaning. But humans cast an interpretation upon it by splitting it into 8 bit segments and looking up the values in a table of ASCII character codes, by which you discover that it means, "Peace and good will to all men." But the 0's and 1's themselves have no inherent or intrinsic meaning.Again, my intention is not to debate information theory with you, but just to tell you enough about it so that you understand you're criticizing it for things it doesn't say and qualities it doesn't possess. If you're willing to spend a few minutes of your time reading up about information theory so that you understand this and can bring a more informed perspective to discussion (your current arguments are, as I said earlier, directed at things information theory doesn't say and qualities it doesn't possess), then I can promote your thread proposal.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I've made an agreement with my wife that I will limti my time on the forum. I will repsond later.

Admin:So information theory is a human construction. But that construction is divorced from human concerns of meaning and interpretation?I am concerned...That is why I wanted to start this thread (remember, it is about purpose). To show that your assertion is not logically possible. Because the very construction of this landmark theory, is purposed to create a divide (divorce) between that which is indivisble.You cannot seperate the theory from the purpose for which it was created. At the very least, it is an idea that has been latched onto. I am not familliar with the particulars of Dr. Shannon. But you are making him out to be a savior. And your wardrobe is hung upon the hook that I wish to expose.You cannot divorce that which is self evident and indivisable. We are all within reality. You cannot seperate reality from it's components. To do so is to eliminate the usefulness and meaning of the component, as well as distort reality in total. We must look at the 'whole' picture.But... if you want to assume or pretend that realty is not interelated within itself; that information and it's purpose are seperate, then I suppose you can talk of information as something in isolation. But the point is your purpose in doing so...The theory itself is not in isolation. It is reductionist.Admin:But by itself, it does not exist. But it does, and this is not an isolated system inwhich it sits. And if it were in an isolated system, we would not be aware of it. So it is a myth... it is an illusion... it is a pipe dream...Admin:The numbers you presented would not exist if it were not for the human being who arranged them. Without any intelligence, there is no such thing as 1's and 0's.You have a false idea that this universe once had no intelligence in it, and that information was some entity unto itself. But no such universe has ever been observed. It is purely a leap of faith, that is completely contrary to the evidence.Life is!What is it's name?I AM!There's the self evidence again.Admin:Actually, the quality you are assigning it is the only quality it deos not posess.As jar once said to me...Yawn...Don't take that the wrong way Percy, but have you ever stopped to consider that it is you who need to take a step back and rethink your position.Or are you afraid that your friends would wonder what happenned to you like our dear Dr. Hoyle?Group think... that's often the enemy.

You are, as usual, stringing lots of words together. They contain no information and it is clear that you don't intend to try to actually think about this topic.I'm closing it.