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Author Topic:   The Flood, fossils, & the geologic evidence
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 106 of 377 (529571)
10-09-2009 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Calypsis4
10-07-2009 5:14 PM


Re: Address the evidence please
Gday,
And where did I suggest it was, dear friend?
So, you are NOT racing?
But this old man is wearing himself out just trying to keep up.
Oh, you ARE racing to keep up?
See the problem?
You will say any old bullshit, even contradict yourSELF in one paragraph.
K.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Calypsis4, posted 10-07-2009 5:14 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 107 of 377 (529573)
10-09-2009 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Calypsis4
10-07-2009 10:47 PM


Re: Address the evidence please
Calipsys4 has ONE trick :
Post a picture and assert
"See, I am right!"
It's SO boring
K.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Calypsis4, posted 10-07-2009 10:47 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 7:17 PM Kapyong has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5213 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 108 of 377 (529576)
10-09-2009 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Kapyong
10-09-2009 7:01 PM


Re: Address the evidence please
Calipsys4 has ONE trick :
Post a picture and assert
"See, I am right!"
It's SO boring
Hmm, let's see if that's true: Go back to the topic post for example:
"But what caused the following burial of countless thousands of organisms who were all crushed in the same place at what had to be the same time:
[thumb=300]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/Martyrs5/100_2417.jpg[/thumb=300]
The fossil bed at Agate Springs, Nebraska. Question: did all those organisms (wild boars, rhinocerus, & extinct mammals of many kinds) all migrate to this spot just to die together? Or perhaps they were the last of the animal world with enough mobility to escape to higher ground the rising flood waters that was presently destroying the world? There are many such locations of thousands (in some cases millions) of organisms that were likewise crushed and fossilized instantly."
This is the case with most of my posts. So did he tell the truth?
No. He just doesn't like what I'm saying so he bellyaches about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Kapyong, posted 10-09-2009 7:01 PM Kapyong has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Coyote, posted 10-09-2009 8:37 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 110 by roxrkool, posted 10-09-2009 9:14 PM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 117 by Percy, posted 10-10-2009 1:58 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 109 of 377 (529607)
10-09-2009 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Calypsis4
10-09-2009 7:17 PM


Re: What evidence?
Or perhaps they were the last of the animal world with enough mobility to escape to higher ground the rising flood waters that was presently destroying the world?
Or perhaps the "global flood" is a myth, and these bones are the result of some other process. Certainly nothing you've posted suggests otherwise.
Personal incredulity is not evidence of anything.
What do the archaeologists or paleontologists who actually did the investigations say about these bones? I didn't see you posting what the experts who know the most about these finds actually said.
(Must have slipped your mind, eh?)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 7:17 PM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 9:39 PM Coyote has not replied

  
roxrkool
Member (Idle past 988 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 110 of 377 (529617)
10-09-2009 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Calypsis4
10-09-2009 7:17 PM


Re: Address the evidence please
One would think that the tops of many peaks across the country, world even, would be chock-full of bones, and yet...
Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 7:17 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5213 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 111 of 377 (529620)
10-09-2009 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Coyote
10-09-2009 8:37 PM


Re: What evidence?
Or perhaps the "global flood" is a myth, and these bones are the result of some other process. Certainly nothing you've posted suggests otherwise.
The word of Moses on the Genesis flood, and still more that of the Lord Jesus Christ, who confirmed that everything that Moses said was the truth is not a 'myth'. The myth is your ridiculous interpretations of the evidence and the dishonest way you and your evil comrades treat the evidence.
Your words mean no more to me or anyone else who has scrutinized evoltionist clap trap is no more than...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Coyote, posted 10-09-2009 8:37 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 112 of 377 (529623)
10-09-2009 9:44 PM


FINAL/SUMMATION MESSAGES ONLY
We have been and are in the final summary messages phase of the topic. If your recent message(s) were not of that sort, they should not have been posted. Only 1 last member message per member. If you posted an non-summary message, too bad.
Probably permanently closing soon.
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 113 of 377 (529664)
10-10-2009 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Granny Magda
10-07-2009 1:17 PM


Re: Bonebed
quote:
the Menoceras remained at the water hole where they died of malnutrition, and scavengers devoured their bodies.
that would be a great explaination if it werent for the fact that animals dont hang around when the food is gone.
they move onto other areas to find food.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Granny Magda, posted 10-07-2009 1:17 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Granny Magda, posted 10-11-2009 5:55 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 114 of 377 (529673)
10-10-2009 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coyote
10-07-2009 5:12 PM


Re: A test for Calypsis4
Coyote writes:
This was not a fossil. It was an archaeological specimen in a cave, and was found with a variety of artifacts and other materials, many of which were more recent.
coyote do you have a reference link to this particular find?
im interested in seeing the other artifacts that were found with it that were of a more recent time...dont you think that is kind of odd if a 10,000 year old skeleton is found with more recent artifacts?
Im not doubting your information...but i also doubt the carbon dating methods for a few reasons and if the skeleton has been dated older then the artifacts found with it, then i'm intersted in knowing how that is justified.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Coyote, posted 10-07-2009 5:12 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Coyote, posted 10-10-2009 12:30 PM Peg has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 115 of 377 (529711)
10-10-2009 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Adminnemooseus
10-09-2009 9:44 PM


Summary
Calypsis wishes to pretend that the fossil record has been produced by an impossible magical event which we know did not happen and could not possibly have produced the fossil record if it did.
Opposed to that are the people who have studied the fossil record and thoroughly understand the processes that produced it.
But, to counter that, Calypsis has one trump card up his sleeve. It is this. He believes in magic. He really believes in magic. No, don't laugh, because he really, really, REALLY believes in magic. And his belief in magic destroys every single fact about the fossil record that is relevant to this discussion.
To quote Calypsis: "The word of Moses on the Genesis flood, and still more that of the Lord Jesus Christ, who confirmed that everything that Moses said was the truth is not a 'myth'."
Of course, Calypsis is wrong about everything, but since he claims that what he's saying is "the word [...] of the Lord Jesus Christ", who we may notice has not actually taken part in this debate, then in the magical kingdom of Calypsis's mind he can fantasize that what he's saying is true.
Of course his beliefs are a load of stinking garbage, but he doesn't have to deal with this fact if he can pretend that every dumb stupid thing he makes up in his head is "confirmed" by "the Lord Jesus Christ". So long as he can pretend that his messiah agrees with him, then facts don't matter.

This message is a reply to:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 116 of 377 (529772)
10-10-2009 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Peg
10-10-2009 3:27 AM


Re: On Your Knees Cave
coyote do you have a reference link to this particular find?
The article I have is "Genetic Analysis of Early Holocene Skeletal Remains From Alaska and its Implications for the Settlement of the Americas" by Kemp et al., American Journal of Physical Anthropology vol. 132 (2007). I don't have the exact page numbers as I have a pdf preprint sent to me by one of the authors.
im interested in seeing the other artifacts that were found with it that were of a more recent time...dont you think that is kind of odd if a 10,000 year old skeleton is found with more recent artifacts?
Google "On Your Knees Cave" and you will find a lot of summaries of this find on the web.
And it is very common to find materials of different ages in archaeological sites. Suitable living sites are used over and over--its a normal human pattern.
Im not doubting your information...but i also doubt the carbon dating methods for a few reasons and if the skeleton has been dated older then the artifacts found with it, then i'm intersted in knowing how that is justified.
You doubt the radiocarbon dating method because you don't like the results; you have no scientific basis for challenging the method.
And as I mentioned, it is common to have archaeological sites that span many thousands of years. My last large excavation spanned 7150 years, but with 31 radiocarbon dates and a variety of other methods for dealing with multiple components it was possible to figure out the sequence of habitation and characterize each component.
(Oh, and that site had no evidence of a massive flood 4,350 years ago either.)
Edited by Coyote, : formatting

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Peg, posted 10-10-2009 3:27 AM Peg has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 117 of 377 (529785)
10-10-2009 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Calypsis4
10-09-2009 7:17 PM


Re: Address the evidence please
Calypsis4 writes:
The fossil bed at Agate Springs, Nebraska. Question: did all those organisms (wild boars, rhinocerus, & extinct mammals of many kinds) all migrate to this spot just to die together?
The National Parks Service provides the answer to your question at this webpage: Mammal Fossils - Agate Fossil Beds National Monument (U.S. National Park Service):
National Parks Service writes:
These animals ate leaves and stems of plants near the river. They spent much of their day lying in the shallows of the water hole to drink, escape bugs and stay cool. When the multi-year drought occurred and the food supply disappeared, the Menoceras remained at the water hole where they died of malnutrition, and scavengers devoured their bodies. When water flowed again, the river washed the bones into a crook or oxbow in the river. The piling up of these bones created the Great bonebed of Agate.
...
Likened more to a tiny antelope than a modern camel, the Stenomylus camel was a small (only 24 high at maturity), delicate-looking creature. A herd animal like the Menoceras, they lived in, and ate the abundant grasses of the area. Also like the Menoceras, they suffered mass deaths at a gradually shrinking waterhole during a severe draught.
In other words, the fossil beds represent an ancient watering hole where great death events occurred during droughts.
This webpage contains more information along the same lines, Geologic Formations - Agate Fossil Beds National Monument (U.S. National Park Service):
National Parks Service writes:
A major drought occurred in the Agate area during the Early Miocene. It is believed that when many of the drought-stricken and exhausted animals came to the remaining water holes in an effort to survive, the animals collapsed and died in and around the water. As the muddy water dried, the fossil beds were formed. Agate’s older fossil layer is about 21 million years old and covered by a layer of ash, and its younger bed is 20 million years old. These layers are in what are now called the Harrison, Anderson Ranch, and Marsland Formations.
You next say:
Calypsis4 writes:
Or perhaps they were the last of the animal world with enough mobility to escape to higher ground the rising flood waters that was presently destroying the world?
The previous webpage I cited provides an answer to this, too:
National Parks Service writes:
During the early Miocene era, beginning about 25 million years ago, streams in the area that now includes Agate Fossil Beds National Monument shifted and cut down to produce valleys. These valleys were later filled in with sediments as the Great Plains continued to build up or aggrade. Aggradation resulted in the formation of wide savannas during the Miocene, those savannas being dotted with small water holes and the whole landscape populated with herds of animals (e.g., chalicotheres, rhinoceroses, entelodonts, beardogs, land beavers, camels, horses, pocket gophers).
So the area was a savanna at the time, and the fossil beds are found at low points of the ancient savanna.
Here's a scientific paper published in 1997 in journal of the Society for Sedimentary Geology: Analysis of the Geology, Fauna, and Taphonomy of Morava Ranch Quarry, Early Miocene of Northwest Nebraska. The Morava Ranch Quarry it describes is only about 20 miles away from Agate Fossil Beds National Monument and contains very similar deposits, indicating that likely the entire Great Plains experienced significant death events during drought periods. The abstract sums it up nicely and in detail:
Paper's abstract writes:
The latest Arikareean (early Miocene) mammal fauna from Morava Ranch Quarry, northwest Nebraska, U.S.A., is dominated by large perissodactyls, including equids, rhinocerotids, and especially the chalicothere Moropus elatus. Lithic and faunal comparisons with the Agate Spring Quarries and Harper Quarry, also from northwest Nebraska, suggest a similar age and depositional environment, probably a transient waterhole in proximity to a fluvial system. Specimens are disarticulated and, in many cases, broken in a pattern indicative of trampling. Weathering, abrasion, and Voorhies Group data suggest that the fauna is primarily autochthonous, with a small allochthonous component, primarily the oreodont artiodactyl Phenacocoelus. Loss of some easily transported elements suggests that the assemblage was winnowed slightly by water transport. Age profiles based on tooth wear suggest a death assemblage dominated by mature, but not aged adults and reflect a mortality pattern intermediate between attritional and catastrophic. A possible scenario for the formation of Morava Ranch Quarry involves drought, during which vulnerable animals expired near waterholes, underwent disarticulation and trampling, and were buried by sediment brought in by wind and periodic flooding.
Thus we have a fairly detailed picture of what the environment and fauna were like some 20 million years, and how the fossil beds came to be.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Calypsis4, posted 10-09-2009 7:17 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5213 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 118 of 377 (529947)
10-11-2009 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by dwise1
10-09-2009 2:17 AM


Re: Summation
I would have jumped in at one point, but LindaLou beat me to it. When Calpysis4 (BTW, look up that word; rather an interesting insight to this individual and his probably character and motivation) regurgitated the standard creationist spasm about the geological column, LindaLou pointed him directly to Glenn R. Morton's page about the existence of the complete geological column (as per published creationist standards) both in North Dakota.
You should have stayed out of it.
I've read Glen Morton and I don't accept his truthfulness in the matter. I don't believe you either. I have reasons but you and those like you deliberately obscure the issues.
So they found the 'geologic column' in North Dakota? Are you sure? And it supposedly exists in 31 other places in the world? What about the hundreds of thousands of other locations in the world? And what about the many locations in the world where part of it is completely upside down?
Good grief, you are so shallow in your thinking and gullible its pitiful. You would have done well to stay out of this for good.
By the way, O brilliant one: 'Calypsis' is indeed based on the Greek word 'Kalupto'. Its reference is to that which is hidden, but only to those that are lost; I Corinthians 4:3. It has nothing to do with anything I am attempting hide from the members of this forum. You were wrong about this one to.
[thumb=400]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/Martyrs5/Aug09262.jpg[/thumb=400]<!--AB-->
<span class="szs f-link"><i>Edited by Calypsis4, <script>if (getCookie('UseUserTimeZone')) {printDateTime(1255264724000, 'US', '-', 4, 'AMPM');} else {document.write('10/11/09 8:38 AM');}</script>: correction</i></span><!--AE-->

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by dwise1, posted 10-09-2009 2:17 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-11-2009 10:25 AM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 126 by roxrkool, posted 10-11-2009 2:45 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 127 by Percy, posted 10-11-2009 2:56 PM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 129 by dwise1, posted 10-12-2009 12:57 AM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5213 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 119 of 377 (529958)
10-11-2009 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by dwise1
10-09-2009 2:17 AM


Re: Summation
Anyone that wishes to check out Glen Morton's angle and his 'honesty' can do so by the expose' on him by Dr. John Woodmarape:
http://www.trueorigin.org/ca_jw_02.asp

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by dwise1, posted 10-09-2009 2:17 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-11-2009 10:20 AM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 120 of 377 (529961)
10-11-2009 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Calypsis4
10-11-2009 9:50 AM


"Dr" "John" "Woodmorappe"
His real name is not "John Woodmorappe", and looking at his article, I note that even he is not dishonest enough to pretend that he has a PhD. The name "John Woodmorappe" is his invention; giving him the title "Dr" appears to be yours.
I prefer that appellation to be reserved to those of us who have earned it.
As for the content of the link you've given us, it does appear that Morton has been honest and accurate, and that "Woodmorappe" is screaming and whining because his dishonesty has been exposed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Calypsis4, posted 10-11-2009 9:50 AM Calypsis4 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Lithodid-Man, posted 10-11-2009 2:05 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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