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Author Topic:   answersincreation.org (Literal Genesis AND Old Earth Creationism?)
Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1 of 105 (207135)
05-11-2005 2:08 PM


Theistic Evolutionism???
Creation Science
Randy cited a page from this site here.
This is a site I have never encountered before, and I have yet to explore other than a light skimming of the Randy cite. It sure looks to have a lot to offer.
From the home page:
Answers In Creation
Bringing the Bible and Science Together Without Conflict
Welcome to Answers in Creation, a creation science ministry believing in an inerrant Word of God and a literal interpretation of Genesis. We also believe the earth is billions of years old. We apply logic and common sense to creation science, and bring conservative Christianity and Old Earth Creationism together, without conflict.
It will be interesting to see how they try to achieve the above. It would seem to require some variety of theistic evolutionism.
Moose
Edit: Added last sentence and subtitle.
This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 05-11-2005 02:21 PM

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 2 of 105 (207171)
05-11-2005 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
05-11-2005 2:08 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
A neat site for open minded Christians who are newbies to the debate. I started there but found it a bit lacking past the basics.
They don't explicitly support any one particular old earth paradigm. They cater to Progressive Creationists, Theistic Evos, etc. The main thing there is...gasp....promote honesty!

FOX has a pretty good system they have cooked up. 10 mil people watch the show on the network, FOX. Then 5 mil, different people, tune into FOX News to get outraged by it. I just hope that those good, God fearing people at FOX continue to battle those morally bankrupt people at FOX.
-- Lewis Black, The Daily Show

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 3 of 105 (207310)
05-12-2005 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
05-11-2005 2:08 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
i'll have to give thata look. i'm well verse in both areas, and i fail to see how they could work together.

אָרַח

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 4 of 105 (256986)
11-05-2005 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
05-11-2005 2:08 PM


Bumpity-Bump
I just managed to bumble onto this (somewhat) old topic I started. Seems like years ago, but it was only 6 months ago. This time I actually got a few of their articles read.
Repeating the link from message 1:
Creation Science
Note that they offer "printer friendly" PDF versions of their articles. The PDF's are also much more (IMO) reader friendly. The drawback is that the links aren't there or don't work in the PDF's, but for them you can go back to the HTML version.
Moose

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 5 of 105 (256998)
11-05-2005 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by arachnophilia
05-12-2005 4:11 AM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
I read through this site a while ago myself. It uses things like the Yom/Age argument and the like IIRC.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 6 of 105 (257009)
11-05-2005 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Minnemooseus
11-05-2005 12:37 AM


Links to Science articles
They have some interesting links on their science news page
http://www.answersincreation.org/science_news.htm
- Global warming and fossil preservations
- Dark Matter (found? or still just theoretical)
- Oxygen levels and evolution
They seem rather proud to toot their horns about their acceptance of science in relationship to YEC views ....
I followed the last to it's link to
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2005/10/051003080102.htm
and then the link from there to
http://ur.rutgers.edu/medrel/science/falkowski.shtml
From a steady 10 percent - the level at which dinosaurs flourished - the oxygen percentage rose to 17 percent 50 million years ago and then to 23 percent by 40 million years ago. The researchers found that the rise in oxygen content in the fossil record corresponded to the rapid rise of large, placental mammals. "The more oxygen, the bigger the mammals," Falkowksi says. "We argue that the rise in oxygen content allowed mammals to become very, very large - mammals like 12-foot-tall sloths and huge saber-toothed cats. They paved the way for all subsequent large mammals, including ourselves."
The results described in Falkowski's article, "The Rise of Oxygen Over the Past 205 Million Years and the Evolution of Large Placental Mammals," stem from years of analysis of organic and inorganic core samples.
In the last 10 million years, the percentage of oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere has decreased to 21 percent. Falkowski says many scientists believed that great fires burned over the earth about 10 million years ago, reducing the number of trees, and, therefore, the amount of photosynthesis and oxygen.
The cited article is:
Falkowski et al., The Rise of Oxygen Over the Past 205 Million Years and the Evolution of Large Placental Mammals, Science 2005 309: 2202-2204
Just a moment...
(requires sign-in)
Can be a good site for showing that not all crhristians need to find problems with evolution, fossils, age of the earth, etc, while still maintaining faith.
{abe}
The major difference I see between them and the YEC\ID sites is that they link to existing science articles outside their site, rather than articles that put spin on interpretations of articles.
I take this as a "here is the information, make up your own mind" approach.
{/abe}
Enjoy.
This message has been edited by RAZD, 11*05*2005 07:47 AM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 7 of 105 (257014)
11-05-2005 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Minnemooseus
11-05-2005 12:37 AM


Re: Bumpity-Bump
Dunno,Moose, it started well and then I got to the line--'the Bible is the inerrant word of God'======
(sigh)

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 105 (257096)
11-05-2005 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
11-05-2005 5:50 AM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
I read through this site a while ago myself. It uses things like the Yom/Age argument and the like IIRC.
that argument annoys me. yom does not mean anything besides a literal day in that context. the whole thing could be metaphorical -- but the words don't change their literal meaning.

אָרַח

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 9 of 105 (257315)
11-06-2005 2:35 PM


Has changed from being a links topic to being a debate topic
Thread moved here from the Links and Information forum.
Originally belonged in the "Links and Information" forum, but no longer does.
Adminnemooseus
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-06-2005 02:37 PM

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 10 of 105 (257318)
11-06-2005 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
11-05-2005 5:50 AM


Literal Bible/Genesis, Yom/Day considerations
They seem to give lip service to accepting Biblical literalism and absolute accuracy, while at the same time (correctly IMO) asserting that such things as the age of the Earth are not really important in the big picture of "the true fundimentals" of Christianity.
At their "Old-Earth Belief" page
http://www.answersincreation.org/old.htm
http://www.answersincreation.org/print/old.pdf (both better printer and reader friendly)
they give there arguments for flexibility in what the length of Yom is.
Moose

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 11 of 105 (261123)
11-18-2005 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
05-11-2005 2:08 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
It will be interesting to see how they try to achieve the above. It would seem to require some variety of theistic evolutionism.
Where does the Bible say the Earth is young ?
Ray

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 12 of 105 (261182)
11-19-2005 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Cold Foreign Object
11-18-2005 8:21 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
the bible claims the earth was created in seven days. well. six days and a nap to finish.
the physical and biological evidence of nature suggests something much different.
i personally am quite capable of accepting the genesis stories as just that... stories. they're simplistic, they don't line up with each other, and they don't even profess to explain creation, but rather respectively why snakes don't have legs and why people get married instead of living with their parents forever and squirting out crotch droppings at home.

i'm worldwide bitch, act like ya'll don't know.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 13 of 105 (261183)
11-19-2005 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by macaroniandcheese
11-19-2005 12:48 AM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
What kind of days? The Bible in the same place refers to all 6 days as "the day" which means according to the Bible a "day" can at least equal all of the first 6 days. Seems to me that the Bible itself suggests "day" means something different than just 24 hour periods here, or that perhaps time is relative and so 6 days can mean just one day depending on one's perspective, and who knows what 6 days or one day is to God.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 14 of 105 (261189)
11-19-2005 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by randman
11-19-2005 12:51 AM


the days of the week
What kind of days?
  1. יוֹם אֶחָד, "one day."
  2. יוֹם שֵׁנִי, "monday"
  3. יוֹם שְׁלִישִׁי, "tuesday"
  4. יוֹם רְבִיעִי, "wednesday"
  5. יוֹם חֲמִישִׁי, "thursday"
  6. יוֹם הַשִּׁשִּׁי, "friday"
  7. יוֹם הַשְּׁבִיעִי, longer version of "shabbat," saturday.
genesis 1:1-2:4 is the etiology of the hebrew work-week.
according to the Bible a "day" can at least equal all of the first 6 days.
בְּיוֹם, or "in the day" means "when" and is indefinate. yom has four usages:
  • "day" as in 24hrs
    --"...And the evening and the morning were the first day."
  • "day" as in "daytime"
    --"And God called the light Day"
  • "days" as in "the days of someones's lives" numbering out to years
    --"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years"
  • "in the day that" meaning "when."
    --"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
these usages don't leave room for an interpretative day-age reading. {editted to add verses}
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 11-19-2005 01:17 AM

אָרַח

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 15 of 105 (261190)
11-19-2005 1:11 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by arachnophilia
11-19-2005 1:07 AM


Re: the days of the week
i see jew-class is good for something
make me some latkes bitch.
(no seriously. i need me some oil.. we totally need to crash someone's hannukah dinner.)

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