Articulating In The Debates; The Proper And The Improper.

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If it doesn't mean anything to you, then Hooah may have picked up from this side of the pond, where "fuck all" is old and common, and means an emphatic "nothing".

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I would have understood "jack shit".In the main debate forums, (Not Coffee House or Free for All), what is the point of adding the stronger and potentially offensive slang for the word?"Jack shit" is common in my neck of the woods, but I wouldn't use it in a debate.Since you said emphatic, it seems the choice is due to adding more negative emotion to the response. This takes us away from being detached. When a person is speaking we can usually tell the level of emotion by their presentation. Unfortunately in a written forum we lose that added aspect of the discussion.More than likely, a reader will perceive a level of emotion they have experienced by others speaking the word. If one's experience with the "f" word has always been negative or extreme anger, that may be what they perceive.Since the nature of a debate is to disagree, IMO, the added emotion of profanity just fans the flames and escalates the conflict. I think it makes it more personal, again depending on how the word is used.

It's not a "public forum." It's an internet forum. You and Buz deciding to act like children doesn't create a "situation" where I feel obligated not to use dirty words, lest you retire to your feinting couch. Just because you decide to act childish, doesn't mean that the rest of us have to follow suit. If you find adult language not to your liking, I'm sure there's a forum where you can talk about last night's Murder, She Wrote completely free of objectionable language. Yes, I think my point, which perhaps you have grasped at last, is that it is unreasonable to demand someone "adjust" - self-censor - just because someone asks for profanity not to be used.

The word fuck isn't always used to convey anger. It is just you who think people are angry when they use curse words. Yes, it is. Or is the name on your birth certificate "purpledawn"? Nope, I am calling Buzsaw, the poster, a scumbag. I do not know who the guy sitting behind the computer is. This is the internet, not real life.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

"The poster" is the guy sitting behind the computer, posting."Buzsaw" is a nickname, maybe not his legal name but still a name that refers to the person. He may be called "Grandpa" by some or "Buddy" by others or "George" by other others but it's still the person that you're talking to.His on-line persona may be different from his real-life personality but it's still the person that you're talking to. This isn't a fantasy role-playing game; it's a (fairly) serious discussion board.Edited by ringo, : Added "maybe".

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"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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It's not a "public forum." It's an internet forum.

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And the difference is what concerning profanity?

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You and Buz deciding to act like children doesn't create a "situation" where I feel obligated not to use dirty words, lest you retire to your feinting couch.

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Just because you decide to act childish, doesn't mean that the rest of us have to follow suit. If you find adult language not to your liking, I'm sure there's a forum where you can talk about last night's Murder, She Wrote completely free of objectionable language.

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Knowing that there are no rules at EvC concerning the use of profanity except when used to insult an individual, why do you stoop to insulting me by calling my actions childish and imply I can't handle the sight of profanity?One member has simply said that he prefers people didn't use profanity. There's nothing childish about that. It isn't childish to be polite or to ask someone to be polite.I've acknowledged that profanity is used in many different ways and not all are offensive or intended as such.Just because I don't use the "f" word doesn't mean I don't use profanity when the occasion arises. Just because I choose not to use profanity at EvC, doesn't mean I don't use profanity when the occasion arises. That goes back to the whole adjust to the audience thing I was talking about.As I said before, using profanity doesn't make one strong and choosing not to use it doesn't make one childish or weak.

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Yes, I think my point, which perhaps you have grasped at last, is that it is unreasonable to demand someone "adjust" - self-censor - just because someone asks for profanity not to be used.

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No one has demanded anything, that I know of anyway. This thread is merely about discussing things that get in the way of quality debate and profanity, depending on how it is used, does tend to get in the way.When people don't wish to comply with a personal request, the requester just has to decide which is more important. It's easiest to just consider the source, move on, and address only the portions of the post that are on topic.

Very little, I would have thought, considering that "nothing" is understood by all English speakers, and we seem to have clearly established that slang like "fuck all" and "jack shit" can be parochial, and might not be understood by some readers.However, I was just being informative and giving you the meaning of the expression and a bit of strange but hopefully interesting possible history, rather than joining in the discussion. I personally don't mind people swearing.My personal complaints would be about practical things, like people capitalizing so that we can easily distinguish between sentences. I think we should make our posts as clear as we can, so that they can be read rather than having to be deciphered. Most EvC posters keep up a pretty good standard, IMO, and some are technically excellent.

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The word fuck isn't always used to convey anger. It is just you who think people are angry when they use curse words.

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Now if you had paid attention to the rest that quote, you wouldn't have wasted the words. I also said: It is the anger being projected or perceived. When talking with someone face to face, we can easily tell when they are conveying anger and when they aren't. In a written forum, it is more difficult and as you noticed there can also be a difference in cultural usage. As I said to crashfrog, just because I choose not to use the "f" word or to use profanity in my writings on EvC, don't assume that I don't use profanity in various forms in the real world.

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Nope, I am calling Buzsaw, the poster, a scumbag. I do not know who the guy sitting behind the computer is. This is the internet, not real life.

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That explains a lot. I think that is also one problem with some people and the internet, they forget that people are behind the internet. They feel no need for common courtesy because they don't see a person with feelings, they see an avatar or a machine. That is a shame, but now you know the difference and hopefully you will adjust and not insult the avatars in any way, shape, or form at EvC.I guess that's why crash thinks the internet is different than a public forum.Now in a debate one can argue any side of the debate they want whether they believe it or not. That's why I find it fascinating that you and crash assume I personally (in the real world) have issues with seeing profanity. That's also why we shouldn't carry issues from one thread to another. A member can always take a different stance.As Ringo said in Message 94:This isn't a fantasy role-playing game; it's a (fairly) serious discussion board.

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However, I was just being informative and giving you the meaning of the expression and a bit of strange but hopefully interesting possible history, rather than joining in the discussion. I personally don't mind people swearing.

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I know, but you don't make it personal or think I'm childish because I ask practical or direct questions.

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My personal complaints would be about practical things, like people capitalizing so that we can easily distinguish between sentences. I think we should make our posts as clear as we can, so that they can be read rather than having to be deciphered.

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Unfortunately sometimes we have to decipher slang as well. Thanks for the info.

Well, I must have mistaken you then. You made it sound as though you perceived all of my fucks as anger. I've yet to tell any of you to fuck off and die, so yes. For me personally, it is skepticism. Skepticism that any one on the internet could ever be who or what they say they are. It's far easier to treat you all as binary numbers than actual human beings. I make no attempt to assume what you do or do not think or how you act in real life. I am addressing purpledawn: the member of internet debate board EvC. I see you as absolutely no more than what your posts consist of.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

Yes, we too can only see you as reflected in your posts. See Message 21.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Well, I must have mistaken you then. You made it sound as though you perceived all of my fucks as anger.

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Really, you can't go back and read what I wrote and actually decide if you misunderstood? It's all right there in black and white.What sentences made you feel that I perceived all your "f" words as anger?We are talking about communication here, why didn't you understand what I wrote?

Message 90Message 91That sure sounds to me like you perceive it that way, since you seem to be associating profanity with negativity. YOU are the one making the reasons why one should not use profanity. This thread is directed at me, PD. I've taken quite the personal interest in it. I did understand. It's called sarcasm.

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"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

Fair enough.

Apparently the difference is how many oldsters I have to listen complain about it. Characterizations of your actions, by definition, can't be personal attacks. You can't simply hide behind the mantle of "personal attack!" any time someone tells you they don't like the consequences of your arguments or makes one you don't appreciate. This is just a further attempt at censorship on your part. I'm sorry you've decided to act that way, but nobody is forcing you to. And other members, including myself, have made it clear that they would prefer to continue to use profanity.That puts us all at loggerheads, I'm afraid. But for some reason you seem to believe that Buz's preference should win out, but the only reason you have for that belief is that Buz's preference is one that you share. Insisting that your preferences are the only ones that matter is the definition of being childish.

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That sure sounds to me like you perceive it that way, since you seem to be associating profanity with negativity.

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Where do I mention my personal perception of all your uses of the "f" word?I was talking to bluegenes about the slang phrase "f all". I made no judgment on your usage of it. I'm just talking about profanity in general and how it can cause problems in a debate, depending on how it is used. (I keep typing that, but you don't seem to understand it.)So why use the profane slang that some may not understand as opposed to the more neutral word?
What does it add to your statement?

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YOU are the one making the reasons why one should not use profanity.

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I'm not making reasons why one should not use profanity. I'm showing why profanity can be a hindrance to debate and understanding, depending on how it is used. My position is that people do adjust or censor themselves when in mixed company. I don't consider it unreasonable for someone to ask that profanity not be used in posts addressing them. If the person using profanity does not wish to oblige the person's request, then the requester has to decide their if they wish to continue discussion with that person. But it isn't unreasonable or childish to ask.

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This thread is directed at me, PD. I've taken quite the personal interest in it.

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I'm not the thread or the originator of the thread. Pay attention to what I write and what I am arguing. Don't assume it's about you unless I say it is.

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I did understand. It's called sarcasm.

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But you didn't understand. You jumped to wrong conclusions.