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Author | Topic: Let's face it... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joz Inactive Member |
quote: LOL I quite agree it would only possibly benefit your very distant descendants...
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5221 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
"Sex was ment to be an emotionally attaching event designed to bond two people together (a man and a woman.) However when people use it just to forfill a lustfull desire it loosing it's meaning until the whole point of a relationship looses it's meaning."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... Wrong way, Love is meant to be an emotional way of attaching people SO they have sex. "I believe this is why God created STD's - to punish those who abuse his gift of sex." HAHAHAHAHAHA.....Nope, God created all life in 6 days. This meant Adam (Eve?) had every known sexually transmitted parasite known to man, & God gave it to them!!!! LOL Why does the faithful husband get STDs off of his flirty wife then? Whats he done now to anger Him? Just can't do anything right, can we!! "Im sorry but arguing that an unborn child has already sinned and deserves to be born with aids isnt terribly convincing as evidence of an omnibenevolent big fella...." "The world is no longer perfect. That is because of man, not because of God." Whaaaaaaaaaat!!! But didn't God create the world & MAN??? If God didn't want to have to create the (very well designed) AIDS virus by way of punishing the innocent, then maybe he should have put more thought into us. He didn't HAVE to make some people (turn to) evil. But you God Bods can't have it both ways. He created us imperfectly or he didn't. I'll probably be the only person that thanks you for "that STD gift" ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: I'm sorry but I consider God more of an authority than yourself. God said sex is his gift to a married couple. For those who choose to abuse this gift there is std's. Before the fall of man there was no sin (or degeneration.) Animals didn't kill each other for food, there were no thorn bushes, and most likely no std's. This was something the bible says came about after man's sin. If you consider the fact that two people who withdraw from sexual attivity until marriage and then are faithful to one another it becomes apparent that my theory is true. As for a husband who gets aids from a cheating wife, maybe God is paying him back for some other sin he commited earlier. I believe it is intirely possible that we are not always punished emmidiatly after we sin. But that being said still I must erge you to understand this basic fundamentalist christian understanding that we are all sinners!! Even when we are born. The sin that Adam commited is carried down through all his generations. Therefor no one is innocent. God did not create evil. Even though God has control over everything, God did not make lucifer's rebellion against him. It does not seem logical but that's because we can't understand it. God actions are not limited to our comprehension. A contradiction to us is comprehension to him.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5221 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
But unborn children never fell. They are blameless. God gave STDs to people who DIDN'T abuse his gifts.
Didn't Jesus die for our sins? Seems he may as well put his feet up & enjoyed a day with a sixpack (for OUR sins, of course), for all the good it did. What was the point? If God is STILL insistent on punishing innocents. We may as well ALL give up & go home if we've been pre-judged in this malicious way. "If you consider the fact that two people who withdraw from sexual attivity until marriage and then are faithful to one another it becomes apparent that my theory is true." What ARE you talking about? Nothing would change on planet Earth if they shagged themselves stupid years before they got married (if they bothered at all). Whether Adam sinned or not is irrelevent. I AM NOT A SINNER. How many Christians would accept life imprisonment on this basis? For being guilty of someone elses crime. NOT YOU, THATS FOR SURE!! Utter rubbish. Please don't insult me saying I don't understand. Whats to misinterpret? I'm guilty of someone elses crime, Jesus died for my sin (actually someone elses), & I'm STILL TO BLAME!!! Sheesh....God sure is hard to please.... So whats the point in Final Judgement if were ALL guilty anyway. Seems to me I may as well go & murder someone, because I'm already being blamed (I wonder if someone else gets the blame for that murder, maybe thats how it works). ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with. [This message has been edited by mark24, 12-12-2001]
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5221 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Didn't God create heaven & earth & LUCIFER???? To say he didn't implies that not everything is Gods work. Tut, tut. So why create something thats going to backstab you? God either deliberately created Lucifer to backstab him, or is such a bad designer he forgot to edit "evil" out. Same goes for Man.
------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: I once read a book by Peter Ustinov called the old man and mr smith it is about God and the devil meeting up on earth to see how things are going... They discuss many things and in the course of the conversation mr smith asks why the old man pushed him out of heaven... The old mans answer is that he needed something to be compared with in order to be seen as perfectly good, besides he adds you were getting bored anyway....
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Unborn children did fall. The biblical account of Adam eating the apple when God specifically told him not to is the example to illustrated that man by nature can not obey God's rules. Sense we all came from Adam we all carry his sin with us. Just as anyone of us would have eating that apple if we would have been in the same situation. Jesus died for our sins so that we can enter heaven, not so that the world could become perfect again. Yes, God is hard to please. God is impossible for man to please. EVERYONE falls short of God's commandments and each one of those is a sin. Jesus did for the sin you committed, are committing currently, and the sin you destined to commit. For nothing can enter heaven that is not pure, but God with God anything is possible so Jesus is the path God gives us to take.
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Ok: a)Is there a set of internally consistent rules to follow in order to avoid sinning? b)If there is I suggest it is possible to follow the rules and not sin. c)If this is the case I stipulate that if there is free will we are not sinners until we ourselves have sinned. d)In which case an unborn child is not a sinner or there is no free will. So which is it to be original sin or free will? One of them needs to be voted off the island....
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Yes. But only God himself is capable of following them. Jesus followed all the rules during his life. b)If there is I suggest it is possible to follow the rules and not sin. [/QUOTE] Only God can follow the rules. c)If this is the case I stipulate that if there is free will we are not sinners until we ourselves have sinned. d)In which case an unborn child is not a sinner or there is no free will. So which is it to be original sin or free will? One of them needs to be voted off the island.... [/QUOTE] Because God knows the future doesn't mean he controls it. You can plant a grass seed and know that it will only grow up grass and not a palm tree because you know the nature of the seed. [This message has been edited by redstang281, 12-12-2001]
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: That is besides the point you cannot have both original sin and free will, One claims you will sin as a matter of course, the other that you determine your own actions.... So which is it to be free will of original sin you cant have both.....
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Because you can not jump to the moon does that mean you do not have free will? It just means you are incapable of jumping to the moon. Just as man is incapable of not sinning but still has free will.
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: But free will allows that a mans actions are not predetermined it is therefore feasible that a man acting of his own free will would not sin. You seem to be claiming that original sin implys that man must sin therefore renouncing the self determination imbued by free will..... I ask again do you believe in free will or original sin for the two are mutually exclusive as you present them.... On another note your jumping to the moon analogy is faulty in that man has jumped to the moon (it took a long time, a lot of money and even more skull sweat but NASA did it)..... [This message has been edited by joz, 12-12-2001]
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5221 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
"Unborn children did fall. The biblical account of Adam eating the apple when God specifically told him not to is the example to illustrated that man by nature can not obey God's rules. Sense we all came from Adam we all carry his sin with us. Just as anyone of us would have eating that apple if we would have been in the same situation."
Actually, all the biblical account shows is that Adam can't take instructions. I wouldn't have eaten the apple & would therefore be innocent where Adam is not. It is obviously wrong to blame people for other peoples crimes. If I punched you in the face you wouldn't call the police & finger someone else, or would you? I put it to you again, if Gods fairness in blaming ALL of us for Adams naughtyness is righteous. Then would you consent to a term of incarceration for someone elses crime? Say 15 years, followed by the chair? Knowing full well that the judge & jury knew you never committed the crime at all. No, thought not. Also, why are some babies punished for Adams crimes with congenital illnesses that amount to a death sentence, yet others are allowed to live to a 100+ years? "Jesus died for our sins so that we can enter heaven, not so that the world could become perfect again. " But why did he have to be nailed to a plank? Couldn't Jesus thrown a wild party for everyone, or Got a Video & KFC, or picked his nose so we can enter Heaven. God makes the rules he could have done it any way, surely? Hang on! Why am I surprised? This bloke causes babies to be born with HIV because someone 6,000 years ago ate an apple, why would he be compassionate to his own son? ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: The analogy meant with his own two feet. Geez!! Give me a break here. I will say again, and I will say it over and over again if I have to, I believe in free will AND original sin. Because God set the standard of rules only on his attainability, it is impossible for a mortal man to comply with each rule. And the sin of Adam weighs upon all of our shoulders. [This message has been edited by redstang281, 12-12-2001]
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redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Adam eating the apple was an example to God. It showed him the nature of man. We all came from Adam and are made of the same makeup as he. Maybe you wouldn't eat the apple, but you would do something else that is forbid.
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