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Author Topic:   Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America's Soul by Ken Miller
onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 31 of 37 (488456)
11-11-2008 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Cold Foreign Object
11-10-2008 2:19 PM


Re: You guys amaze me!
Experts like Saddam, Castro, Stalin and Mao agree: censorship works.
So do Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfeld.
I don't think anyone is trying to censor you, I think they are meerly disagreeing with your position. You would do better by showing specifics of where exactly you found a problem with what Miller said. If you are going to make assertions without providing evidence then rightfully so people are going to make assertions about your knowledge on the subject.
Just food for thought.
I personally have only read "Finding Darwins God" by Ken Miller, in which he does take issue with ID and the edition I have has the details of the Dover case. I have however, watched the video and would be curious to see where you have found problems with the evidence that he presents.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-10-2008 2:19 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-11-2008 10:38 PM onifre has replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3128 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 32 of 37 (488483)
11-11-2008 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Rrhain
11-11-2008 5:25 AM


...and this would be where you provide specifics. How many times do I have to ask?
This comment completely evades the reply offered. I have read Miller's book, have you?
Ray writes:
In the context of the Creation-Evolution debate "Intelligence" and "Design" are recognized universally to be the attributes of an invisible Creator (if He exists).
Opponent in response writes:
Incorrect. "Intelligence" and "design" are not "intelligent design." In the context of biology, we have never seen "design." Science understands about design since that's the entire point behind engineering.
Non-sequitur.
We all know what it means when points are ignored.
My opponent then continues to produce one stupid non-sequitur and contradiction after another, here is a sample:
Ray (previously): Why is there a Evolution-ID debate?
Opponent: There isn't. If you look at the literature, you don't find any discussion of "ID" because there has never been any evidence put forward for it.
Ray: The issue was that evolution says both attributes are not seen in nature. Creationists-IDists disagree. Opponent denies the central purpose of this debate board and the debate that has been going on since Darwin 1859.
Michael Shermer, "Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design" (2006).
Ray (previously): Why does every evolutionist here and everywhere vehemently protest any scientific claim that says nature reflects either attribute?
Opponent: They don't. They simply demand that you show your work and not assert it to be true. So far, you have not provided any specifics.
Ray: Opponent denies a self-evident fact: evolutionists argue against ID tooth and nail----exactly what Rrhain has been doing. The contradiction here is egregious or the same is evidence that my opponent is a scatter brain.
Ray (previously) I agree: evolution says there is no evidence of ID.
Opponent: Incorrect. It isn't evolution that says there is no evidence of "ID." It is science that does it.
Ray: Opponent denies then agrees. Of course, from an objective perspective, opponent is quibbling over nothing.
I am not seeking to depart the topic subject as per the rules of this board. Have you read Miller's book?
General Reader: the replies by my opponent in these exchanges prove that the ordinary evolutionist is completely dishonest or ignorant or deluded since it is a self-evident fact that evolution denies nature to contain Intelligence and Design. Again, the Creation-ID-Evolution debate is the central purpose of this debate board as seen in its name "EvC Forum."
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Rrhain, posted 11-11-2008 5:25 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 11-11-2008 11:13 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3128 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 33 of 37 (488484)
11-11-2008 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by onifre
11-11-2008 4:38 PM


Re: You guys amaze me!
I don't think anyone is trying to censor you, I think they are meerly disagreeing with your position.
Either you haven't read the exchanges or you are an evolutionist brown-nosing the pro-evolution Moderators and Site controllers.
Ray

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by onifre, posted 11-11-2008 4:38 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by onifre, posted 11-12-2008 5:23 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 34 of 37 (488486)
11-11-2008 10:44 PM


The topic is Miller's book
Every message should have some obvious connection to the book in the topic's title. No connection - risk a suspension.
Adminnemooseus

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Report a problem etc. type topics:
Report Technical Problems Here: No. 1
Report Discussion Problems Here: No. 1
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], [thread=-19,-337], [thread=-14,-1073]
Admin writes:
It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 35 of 37 (488488)
11-11-2008 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Cold Foreign Object
11-11-2008 10:35 PM


Cold Foreign Object responds to me:
quote:
quote:
...and this would be where you provide specifics. How many times do I have to ask?
This comment completely evades the reply offered.
And still, no specifics are given. How many times do I have to ask?
On page xyz of Miller's book, he says, "...."
At wx:yz of Miller's video, he says, "...."
That's what a "specific" means. So far, all you've done is assert general, vague comments. No discussion can be had because we don't know what you're talking about, why you have come to the conclusion that you are asserting.
How many times do I have to ask?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-11-2008 10:35 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3031 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 36 of 37 (488536)
11-12-2008 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Cold Foreign Object
11-11-2008 10:38 PM


Bad boy! - Suspension issued
{Message content "hidden" (use "peek" to see). 24 hour suspension issued (see two messages up). - Adminnemooseus}
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Content hidden, my messaged added, suspension done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 11-11-2008 10:38 PM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3181 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 37 of 37 (488689)
11-14-2008 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
07-18-2008 9:30 AM


I haven't started it yet, it's next on my list. I'm still in the middle of Your Inner Fish, things have been busy lately and it's going slow.
Great book! It is an easy read (compared to some of Dawkins somewhat hard to read, though very informative text).

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 07-18-2008 9:30 AM Percy has not replied

  
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