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Author Topic:   evolution is IN the bible!
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2715 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 1 of 31 (98226)
04-06-2004 8:38 PM


Gen. 6:8 But Noah, the predecessor of the Modern Homo Sapiens which were to emerge, found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Gen. 6:9 These are the generations of humanity that followed Noah, the three racial stocks of Homo Sapiens that followed:
Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked, he experienced the Reality of the nature of the universe into which he had been evolved, he thought rationally and realistically, compatibily with the Creative Power, his God, The First Cause, being Absolute Total Energy.

Gen. 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, three Homo Sapiens members from his racial stock; Shem, the Mongoloid Stock; Ham, the Negroid Stock; and Japheth, the Caucasian Stock.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Gary, posted 04-06-2004 9:11 PM kofh2u has responded
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Gary
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 31 (98236)
04-06-2004 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kofh2u
04-06-2004 8:38 PM


How does this support evolution? You had to add information and change the wording of the Bible to make it suit your point of view. I don't think Genesis supports evolution.

Here is what the King James Version of the Bible says:

quote:

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.
Gen 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by kofh2u, posted 04-06-2004 8:38 PM kofh2u has responded

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SRO2 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 3 of 31 (98240)
04-06-2004 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Gary
04-06-2004 9:11 PM


He doesn't care what the KJV says
He is re-writing the Bible in it's entirety to fit his perspective (which i guess there is nothing wrong with that since thats how it came to be in the first place).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Gary, posted 04-06-2004 9:11 PM Gary has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2715 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 4 of 31 (98271)
04-06-2004 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Gary
04-06-2004 9:11 PM


Would you quote the KJV of Genesis 6:1 and explain in identities,...
1) sons of God =
2) sons of man =
3) daughters of men =
4) The Nephilim =
5) children = men of renown =

Genesis 6
1 When the sons of man, humanoids, early forms of men, began to increase in number on the earth, around the end of the Pilocene Age in the Quaternay Period of the Cenozoic Era, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God, or that line of humanoids which would ultimately branch into the humanity which is yet to come, Homoiousian Men whose mental capability shall correspond, one-to-one, with the Ultimate Reality which we call God, they, hominoids sons, saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, essentially, in this process of adaption to the environmental reality, "My Spirit (evidenced in the Natural Laws governing this world) will not contend with man in this present stage of development forever, for Neanderthal Man is mortal, he dies, is genetically recreated, but improveable through that process by the refining fires of Evolution which I have so devised; his days will be ended in a hundred and twenty thousand years."
4 The Nephilim, great animals of all sorts, Homo Erectus, post-dinosaurs, and such, were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God, Early Homo Sapiens, went into the daughters of men, hominoids such as Neanderthals, and had children by them. They, these children who were the predecessors of Modern Homo Sapiens yet to come, nevertheless, they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart, that is, his psyche, was only evil, self destructive, and in defiance of the realities of "Father Nature" all the time. 6 The LORD, Father Nature, as we might say, was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain, but, sadly, the axe stands at the tree of life and MUST hack off every branch that has failed to adapt. 7 So, the LORD, "Father Nature," said, metaphorically, "I will wipe from the face of the earth mankind, these lower forms of humanoids, whom I have created, and their conscious thoughts -men and all their conscious awareness of animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air, all memory and every mental abstraction of them, in the mind of these humanoids-for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah, the eponym for the whole line of the species Modern Homo Sapiens, found favor in the eyes of the evolutionary process utilized by the LORD, our Universal Reality.
9 This is the account of Noah.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2715 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 5 of 31 (98277)
04-06-2004 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by SRO2
04-06-2004 9:21 PM


Re: He doesn't care what the KJV says
Gary, I am applying the understanding I have about reality, the world I live in, to my reading of scripture.
I have tremendous respect for the Bible. At one and the same time have all due respect for the wisdom of our times.
I believe the the power of the Almighty, the Universal Force, The Prime Mover, The First Cause, or Father Nature is undisputably master of us all. I am convinced this is the God of the living, Yahweh of the old testament.

The definition of pre-Christian religion is animism. The belief in spiritual worlds and evil immaterial ghost-like entities possess us from the outside is opposed th the Freudian insights that these seven spirits are at large and well in the kingdom within.

I ask you, "If these scriptures do not concern the matter of Human Behavior," if Freud and Carl Jung have little to add to our knowledge about scripture, "what is the Bible about?"

Satan = Libido
Lucifer = Id
Baalzebub = Self
Mammon = Ego
False Prophet = Superego
False Shepherd = Harmony Principle
Devil = Anima/animus

And, of course,
The Holy Spirit = Conscience


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 6 of 31 (98284)
04-06-2004 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by kofh2u
04-06-2004 11:26 PM


Re: He doesn't care what the KJV says
If you have "tremendous" respect for what the bible says...whats wrong with it's current wordng?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by kofh2u, posted 04-06-2004 11:26 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by kofh2u, posted 04-07-2004 1:17 PM SRO2 has responded
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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2715 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 7 of 31 (98426)
04-07-2004 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by SRO2
04-06-2004 11:34 PM


Translations and interpretations
The reason I do my interpretation is that there is none elsewhere.

There is nothing wrong with the original manuscripts in Hebrew, if we had them, nor the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the Greek, or the Latin translations of the Bible. There is nothing wrong with the translation of the KJV.

That mistakes were made in the choice of synonyms is all, going from one language to the other, is understandable. The choices made reflect to some degree what the pre-set thinking of the translator assumed was the message he was changing to an understanding in another culture and language.

Example:

The KJV does not translate the word "magi," in Matthew 2. This Persian word was left without translating the obvious meaning in English because the Christian culture in England was certain that the Bible was 100% against cults and astrologers, and magicians. Of course, magi is the root of the word "magician." In the Presian tongue magi, the three kings the KJV has taught us to say, means "Astrologers."

That was why they were following the sign of a star to Bethlehem. These men were the first visitors to pay respect to the messiah, and they were Astrologers! The KJ translators refused to write that.

Proof? The latest Catholic edition of the Bible uses Astrologers.

Now, in this example, you can see the significance of getting INTERPRETATION from translation. The idea that maybe Persian Astrologers from modern day Iran were on to something, were acceptable visitors, knew Jesus before us... hmmmmm... maybe interpretation is the path to understanding what the word for word translation is trying to communicate.

Interpretation in scripture is encouraged. In Revelation 13 we are asked, if wise, to figure out the puzzle of 666. ANd, of course, interpretation has created twelve different major Christian denominations plus seven Fundamentalists Organizations. They can't all be interpreting both correctly and differently.

So, reading the bible line by line and placing the supposed meaning one gets from the Translation as Interpretation of symbolism, metaphor, simile, parable, exaggeration, analogy, and the literal leads to a continuum of thought. The sum of that reading and interpretation into what it means to the person reading it seems as normal and natural as reading a math book.

But, the reason I do my interpretation is that there is none elsewhere. Is there?

The Urim and Thummim Ex 28:30
The Iron Rod Rev 2:27
the keys Lu 11:52
dry bones Ez 37
cherubim Ez1, Ez10, Rev 4, Rev 5
seal of God Rev 7:3
repetitous seven
seven facet stone Zech3:9
four horsemen Rev 6:2-9
square ? breastplate Ex39:9
seven seals Rev 5:1
new name for God Rev 3:12
secret name Rev 19:12
secret names Rev 2:17
cube shaped New Jerusalem Rev 21:16
blacken sun Rev 6:12
stars falling from heaven Rev 6:12
Moon turned to blood Rev 6:12
666 Rev 13:18
name of God on forehead Rev 7:3
Jesus, morning star Rev 22:16
two oil trees Zech 4:11
horned altars Ez 27:2
new song Rev 5:9
tree with twelve manner of fruit Rev 22:2
24 elders Rev 4:4
crown and bow Rev 6:2
Strange Hebrew rituals from Leviticus:
Lulav
tabernacles
kiddish
Seder plate
cohanim hand blessing
more... much more....

[This message has been edited by kofh2u, 04-07-2004]


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 26 by apple, posted 04-21-2004 10:44 PM kofh2u has responded

  
SRO2 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 8 of 31 (98433)
04-07-2004 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by kofh2u
04-07-2004 1:17 PM


Re: Translations and interpretations
Well, then why is your interpretation expected to be any more accurate than the others other than it's "your" interpretation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by kofh2u, posted 04-07-2004 1:17 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
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Trixie
Member (Idle past 2601 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 9 of 31 (98482)
04-07-2004 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kofh2u
04-06-2004 8:38 PM


By your own admission.....
.....evolution is NOT in the Bible, therefore your title topic is misleading at best and does you no credit. How on earth can you say that genesis supports evolution and then manufacture a "version" to back up your assertion? If the words that you have quoted from Genesis aren't really in Genesis, then no amount of wishful thinking will put them there. You're fooling no-one but yourself.

Secondly, nowhere in your initial post do you make it clear that you are not quoting Genesis word for word, in fact you deliberately make it look as if you are quoting Genesis. I'm sure this must be against the forum guidelines - misrepresenting your sources.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by kofh2u, posted 04-06-2004 8:38 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 10 of 31 (98484)
04-07-2004 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Trixie
04-07-2004 5:03 PM


Re: By your own admission.....
In his defense, he is trying to do Christianity a favor by re-writing the Bible to fit into the new discoveries in modern science, unfortunately, in the noble attempt, he is also just making the original version completely wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Trixie, posted 04-07-2004 5:03 PM Trixie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Trixie, posted 04-07-2004 5:25 PM SRO2 has responded

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 2601 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 11 of 31 (98492)
04-07-2004 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by SRO2
04-07-2004 5:11 PM


Re: By your own admission.....
Exactly and it does Christians and Christianity no good whatsoever to give the impression that if the Bible doesn't fit the facts, we just change the Bible!! How on earth can any Christian then claim that the Bible is the innerrant Word of God? Surely it makes more sense to accept that the Bible isn't the inerrant Word of God, but written by man under the impression that he was inspired by God (and who knows maybe most were). He's written a complete load of twaddle that neither YECs OECs, evolutionist Christians or evolutionist atheists can accept. Who does that leave? Apart from the terminally deluded, of course.

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SRO2 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 12 of 31 (98494)
04-07-2004 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Trixie
04-07-2004 5:25 PM


Re: By your own admission.....
Well, bless his heart, he's tryin' do something...even if it's goin' the wrong way.

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2715 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 13 of 31 (98504)
04-07-2004 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by SRO2
04-07-2004 1:52 PM


Re: Translations and interpretations
Well, I might be tempted to go along with you: that it is a dirty job, interpreting the Bible, but someone must do it. But, no. That's not the point.

The point is that those who have interpreted the bible were just guys in the past generations. People like you and me, humans reading and thinking critically.

That is just what the churches have all done. All have done so with the guidance of men in that long past day of their own particular denomination's inception.

And, half of ll churches today have come into being in the last century!

This is to say that men, like you or I, have read the scriptures, read available resources, and in their opinion expressed their take on the meaning of scripture as they see it.

That millions founded a church, (now twelve different denominations) by such means, does not preclude the re-reading and a critical exegesis in the light of more modern understandings of the reality we live in.

Isaiah says it: "...a little here, a little there, ... line on line...

Paul says it: "We see dimly now through glass..."

EXAMPLE:
Jehovah Witnesses were founded @ 100 years ago. The whole movement began with the realization that the God of the KJV Bible actually had a name, YHVH, Jehovah.

Or, so they thought and taught, and teach.

Actually, the Hebrew alphabet of Scripture has no letter for "J." There was NO LETTER "J' in the Hebrew Alphabet!

What the Jehovah Witnesses thought was a J, was really a Y.

So Yahweh is the real name.

(These people should call themselves Yahweh' Witnesses. But, if you ask them about this little itty bitty thingee, they will deny that their movement started with the assertion and ridicule of christians in other denominations,... ridiculing them that their church didn't even know the name of the God they worshipped.

The pot calling the kettle, huh?)

But, there are a number of reason why I, personally, feel that my own insights are important enough to express, over and beyond the freedom of all to join in with these now ancient ancestors.

One reason is the partial list I gave you of things NO ONE has been able to explain. (Find me ANYONE's explanation on these things.) There is none. Or, if there are wild guesses, they do not fit in elsewhere in the scriptures.

I mean, take the verses below. UFO's just don't cut it as an answer to what these four faced creatures are, not for me. And, as most "experts" will tell you, these are spirits in heaven.

Lame.

I mean, yes, I know they are something related to the idea of spiritual concepts. By why are we told about them if we can't relate them to the other ideas of Jesus?

What's your take on these verse, rocky, you are a scientist with incessant curiosity, you say?

Ezek. 1:5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.

Ezek. 1:15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

Ezek. 1:6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.

Ezek. 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 14 of 31 (98507)
04-07-2004 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by kofh2u
04-07-2004 6:01 PM


Re: Translations and interpretations
Look Kofth,
I've akways appreciated your efforts, no matter how mis-guided I think they are...you put a lot of time and effort into, but like the Bible...your efforts to explain things will be here today and gone tomorrow. It's just the reality of it.

You call me a "Scientist" and ask for my objective opinion of a series of fairy tale myths...there's no room in my trained brain to engage in a critical analysis of something I know to be patently false...you might as well ask me to do the same for Nostrodamus, Alice in Wonderland or the Hildebrant brothers..it all reads like fiction to me with no foundation in science.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by kofh2u, posted 04-07-2004 6:01 PM kofh2u has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by kofh2u, posted 04-07-2004 6:46 PM SRO2 has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2715 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 15 of 31 (98510)
04-07-2004 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Trixie
04-07-2004 5:03 PM


Re: By your own admission.....
Trixie,
rocky never told me he had such a bright and pretty wife!

Or, is that avatar some icon I don't recognize?

Right, The Theory of Evolution is not in the bible. But the concept of seven long Geological Time Periods, the seven Eras of the Geological Clock seem to be recognized in the seven Yom's of time found in Genesis.

Yes, presenting Genesis in a translation which chooses more wisely the synonym for Yom as "Era," a long duration, instead of 24 hour day is no volation of the integrity of scripture.

Integrity would suggest that people who elect to pick "24 hour day" from the synonyms listed in the Hebrew, and who run into controversy with the facts we know today ought be faulted, not the guy who chooses the right synonym. But, let the blood of the Eucharist be on my hands and the hands of my children, if you insist.

Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven (to religious discourse), that it rain not (controversy reign not) in the (1000 years of) days (of the Dark Ages) of their prophecy (the Old Testament and the New Testament): and have power over waters (of the masses Catholicism) to turn them to blood (of the Eucharist) and to smite the earth (of Western Culture) with all plagues (of Inquisitions), as often as they will.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Trixie, posted 04-07-2004 5:03 PM Trixie has not yet responded

  
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