Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 76 (8908 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 05-19-2019 8:37 AM
21 online now:
CosmicChimp, Percy (Admin) (2 members, 19 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WeloTemo
Upcoming Birthdays: Percy
Post Volume:
Total: 851,600 Year: 6,637/19,786 Month: 1,178/1,581 Week: 0/393 Day: 0/30 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev123
4
5Next
Author Topic:   The Apocalyptic Beheaders
Faith
Member
Posts: 31240
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 67 (304725)
04-17-2006 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Coragyps
04-17-2006 9:57 AM


Re: Apocalyptic Christians are the Greatest Threat in the World Today.
Read one yourself. We are talking about Christians not "Christian government." Since when did the British government act on belief in Biblical prophecy?

This message has been edited by Faith, 04-17-2006 10:15 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Coragyps, posted 04-17-2006 9:57 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14920
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 47 of 67 (304764)
04-17-2006 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
04-15-2006 6:26 PM


Re: General Reply
I said that you can't find any signs of the Apocalypse bwing imminent because you can't. The Exile itself was just as much a "sign" and that was 0more than 1900 years ago. And there's more stuff that needs to happen first - like rebuilding the Temple - which has yet to even start.

In fact the very existenc eof this thread proves me righht. If you really could see signs that the Apocalypse was imminent you wouldn't be wasting time with this argument at all.

Likewise he reason I say that even if the Ap ocalypse had begun it would not address my point, is because it does not. My point is that these rumoured calls for a beheading are of no significance to your Apocalyptic ideas. The more so since your arguments indicate that the Apocalypse "began" prior to the Jewish Revolt and the particular incident that sparked this post certainly does not indicate "severe persecution".

As for your "serious" "students" of the Bible, they appear to be "seriously" opposed to study and interested only in inveting excuses to axplain away the clear discrepencies. The differences are significant and ignore what genuine students of the Bible have discovered about the writing of the Gospels.

Equally your "serious students" see, to think that if the Bible says something that they don't like they should pretend that it says something else. Mark and Matthew clearly link the destruction of the Temple to the Second Coming. I know you don't like it but it's you against the Bible.

Moreover the reasons why I don't beleive th at Jesus expected an exile return have nothing to do with any prejudice against it. I am, for iastance, quite happy to accept that Jesus predicted the destruction of the Temple within a generation (and that happened). The reasons why I do not beleive th at Jesus did not make the prediction you refer to are due to the fact that Luke's account is very different from Matthew and Mark (who closely agree) - and there is no good explanation as to why both Matthew and Mark would omit major events like that, Wh ereas it is quite likely that someone would revise the prophecy after the fact And accordign to the wide consensus of Bible scholars, Luke was written after the fall of Jerusalem and therefore could easily include a revised "prophecy".

With regard to th e Tribulation you are again in oppsoition to the Bible. The Tribulation is supposed to be a time so bad that if it continued for long humanity would be wiped out. Clearly it cannot go on for centuries. So either the Tribulation is long gone, or Luke is wrong.

As for this:

quote:

The Olivet discourse begins with events of the period and ends with events close to the 2nd advent of Jesus. Note the apostle's three part question to Jesus in Matthew 24:3: A. When shall these things be?(Concernng temple, e t al) B. What shall be the sign of your coming? and C. What shall be at the end of the age? You folks demand science participants in science threads to debate science scientifially, yet are acting like anything goes here as to offering a credible argument. Serious students understand that the contextreveals which was to be near at hand and which would apply to end time events.

A SERIOUS student of the Bible would check the parallel versions in Mark and Luke. They would also read the answer. None of these sources back up your assertion that the answer is to be read as answering three different questions concerning widely seperated events.

Mark 13:4 (NASB)


4 "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?"

And from the context it is clearly the destruction of the Temple that is meant - nothing else is mentioned.

Worse for you, consider the answer. Where in Matthew does Jesus answer the question about the destruction of the Temple ? If he does not then you whole argument fails to even work with Matthew.

Thus your accusation that I am not producing serious answers is absurd. I am paying more attention to the Bible than you are. I certainly do not agree that "anything goes" - your arguments are certainly far from adequate as I am demonstrating. Until you are prepared to take the text of the Bible at least as seriously as I do - unlike your so-called "serious students"- then you are not managing a serious discussion on the Bible.

It is also false to say that I am not acceptign your evidence. The fact is that - as I am showing - your evidence is simply not adequate to back up your claims. There is no special reference to an increae in beheadings. Even if there is an increase in beheadings there is nothing to link it to the particular beheadigns you are talking about.

And as I have already done my homework I know that the Beast's regiime does not yet exist, nor is there any plausible reason to suppose that it will exist in the near future. Thus your point 4 really was irrelevant.
s


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 04-15-2006 6:26 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 67 (304777)
04-17-2006 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
04-14-2006 9:42 PM


Re: General Reply
Beheadings will emerge as the primary mode of execution!!

China alone executes, at a minimum, 3,400 people per year, all by firing squad. (Amnesty International stresses that this is only the ones for which China is willing to release information, and that the actual number is probably much higher.) This is compared to... what, a handful of beheadings on the news?

You say it's just the beginning, but beheadings aren't even remotely close to the primary mode of execution. You're counting your raptures before they hatch.


"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Buzsaw, posted 04-14-2006 9:42 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 12:02 AM Dan Carroll has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 67 (304862)
04-17-2006 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Coragyps
04-17-2006 9:57 AM


Re: Apocalyptic Christians are the Greatest Threat in the World Today.
I would agree with Faith. Last I heard the British government is not a Christian theocracy.

We're trying to get back to topic. If you want to argue your point why not open a new thread on it?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Coragyps, posted 04-17-2006 9:57 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-18-2006 5:10 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 67 (304863)
04-18-2006 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Dan Carroll
04-17-2006 1:41 PM


Re: General Reply
You're missing my point that with the emergence of Islam as a threat to world peace, you will likely see more beheadings. Time will tell. I'm contending that they are beginning to emerge in the news whereas, hardly anything significant about them has been aired for a long time. I'm more or less making a pediction based on the Bible. It's too early to know how that will turn out. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but doubt that that hope will be realized.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-17-2006 1:41 PM Dan Carroll has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ReverendDG, posted 04-18-2006 3:28 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 55 by RickJB, posted 04-18-2006 4:51 AM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 58 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-18-2006 10:11 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 67 (304867)
04-18-2006 12:36 AM


Blogs Corroborate Bible
I suggest that interested folks do a google on "beheadings on increase." You get pages of blogs, et al of folks talking about this phenomena of the emergence of beheadings. So it's not just this babling boogyman buz being bothered about abundant beheading brutalities.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by PaulK, posted 04-18-2006 1:55 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 04-18-2006 2:03 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14920
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 52 of 67 (304875)
04-18-2006 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Buzsaw
04-18-2006 12:36 AM


Re: Blogs Corroborate Bible
And where does the Bible specifically say that beheadings will increase ?

A


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 12:36 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16443
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 53 of 67 (304876)
04-18-2006 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Buzsaw
04-18-2006 12:36 AM


Re: Blogs Corroborate Bible
buzsaw writes:

... do a google on "beheadings on increase."

I googled "beheadings on increase" and got 556,000 hits.
Then I googled "Flintstone is God" and got 1,050,000 hits.

Scientific research in action. :D


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 12:36 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2245 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 54 of 67 (304886)
04-18-2006 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Buzsaw
04-18-2006 12:02 AM


Re: General Reply
I think you are trying to play up the threat of islam way too much, and need to relax a bit, but thats just me i guess

You're missing my point that with the emergence of Islam as a threat to world peace, you will likely see more beheadings. Time will tell. I'm contending that they are beginning to emerge in the news whereas, hardly anything significant about them has been aired for a long time. I'm more or less making a pediction based on the Bible. It's too early to know how that will turn out. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but doubt that that hope will be realized.

maybe the fundis are a threat but fundis are a threat no matter what religion they are, come now buz you are making it out to be exstremists = islam, when you know thats wrong.

the bible doesn't say anything about islam, you are putting your own spin on it, to make it look like islam is the boogyman. revelations is so vague theres no way to tell what the author was talking about or what century even, it could be now, 100 years from now or a thousand

theres a lot of people that claim the catholic church is the whore of babylon, but they have no basis eather, why would this be true?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 12:02 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
RickJB
Member (Idle past 3125 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 55 of 67 (304893)
04-18-2006 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Buzsaw
04-18-2006 12:02 AM


Re: General Reply
quote:
You're missing my point that with the emergence of Islam as a threat to world peace..

I take real exception with this idea for various historical reasons. Firstly, Islam is said to have emerged in around 632 and so has been with us for almost 1400 years. It certainly isn't a sudden occurance, and it's power as a culture can be said, if anything, to have waned from an early peak in the first centuries of the last millenium.

Secondly, your post appears to make the assumption that Islam is naturally violent whilst Christianity is naturally non-violent. The truth is that as much violence has been done in the name of Jesus as has been done in any religion, nost notably the Crusades.

Thirdly, I detect an inferrence that Islam is/has always been unenlightened. Again, this is not true. During the early centuries of the last millenenium is was Islamic culture that both lead and influenced the Christian world, produced notable strides forward in Mathematics and Astromony and preserved many classical Greek and Latin texts that have, since the Renaissance, become cornerstones of Western Christian culture.

It is true that in recent years parts of the Muslim world have slid towards extremism, but this is a classic response to the position of economic and social powerlessness that many Muslims currently find themselves, which itself can be attributed to the failure of their societies to counter the rise of capitalist power and influence from the West.

I agree with Jar here. The real enemy, if we have to produce one, is religious fundamentalism of ANY stripe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 12:02 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 10:43 PM RickJB has responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2062 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 56 of 67 (304896)
04-18-2006 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Buzsaw
04-17-2006 11:53 PM


Re: Apocalyptic Christians are the Greatest Threat in the World Today.
not theocracy so much, but they do have a state church, and it is a christian one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Buzsaw, posted 04-17-2006 11:53 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by RickJB, posted 04-18-2006 7:10 AM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 3125 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 57 of 67 (304908)
04-18-2006 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by macaroniandcheese
04-18-2006 5:10 AM


Re: Apocalyptic Christians are the Greatest Threat in the World Today.
Buzz and Brenn,

Christianity in Britain had just about nothing to do with the establishment of Israel - if anything Britain eventually had to be pushed to accept it.

The post war goverment in the UK was formed by the Social Democratic Labout party, who, amongst other things introduced nationalized healthcare and encouraged partially-nationalized industry. Amonst the top ranks of Labour at this time were many Socialist/Humanist atheists.

The establishment of Israel was pushed by a combination of huge amounts of immigration by Jews to Palestine before and during WWII backed by a strong Zionist movement. Britain still had a great deal colonial power in the area (having been given a League Of Nations mandate to prepare Palestine for independence) and had made promises to the Zionist movement with regard to a new Jewish homeland within Palestine. However, at the same time they attempted to limit Jewish immigration to avoid an Arab uprising. In short, they were stuck in the middle. The emerging facts of the Holocaust, a low-level conflict with Jewish immigrants and pressure from the US eventually forced Britain to accept Israel's establishment at the expense of a greater Palestine and many Palestinians.

This message has been edited by rjb, 04-18-2006 07:22 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-18-2006 5:10 AM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by MangyTiger, posted 04-18-2006 8:26 PM RickJB has responded

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 67 (304938)
04-18-2006 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Buzsaw
04-18-2006 12:02 AM


Re: General Reply
You're missing my point that with the emergence of Islam as a threat to world peace, you will likely see more beheadings.

And what I'm saying is that, according to what we see in the world around us, there is nothing to suggest that it will reach the levels stated in your religion.

Could there be a rise in beheadings? Sure. But are you suggesting that a loosely organized handful of terrorist cells will reach the point where their capacity for routine execution outstrips China? Because that would be required for the stated end result, "beheadings will emerge as the primary mode of execution."

I suggest that interested folks do a google on "beheadings on increase."

Okay. The first page that comes up is an Amnesty International page, which refers to the increase in executions in Saudi Arabia. Apparently, it's up to 31 per year, as of 2004.

Feel free to compare this to the number from China in my previous post.

The second page on google is a website called Satan's Rapture. And for directing me to a loon site of that caliber, I thank you.


"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird
This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2006 12:02 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Coragyps, posted 04-18-2006 10:24 AM Dan Carroll has not yet responded
 Message 60 by lfen, posted 04-18-2006 2:38 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded
 Message 63 by MangyTiger, posted 04-18-2006 8:43 PM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5386
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 59 of 67 (304946)
04-18-2006 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Dan Carroll
04-18-2006 10:11 AM


Re: General Reply
which refers to the increase in executions in Saudi Arabia. Apparently, it's up to 31 per year, as of 2004.

Pah! Texas clears their nose in your general direction, Saudi Arabia! We kill about that many mentally retarded people alone in a year around here!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-18-2006 10:11 AM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

    
lfen
Member (Idle past 2812 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 60 of 67 (305016)
04-18-2006 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Dan Carroll
04-18-2006 10:11 AM


Re: General Reply
And for directing me to a loon site of that caliber, I thank you.

High Caliber Loon sites deserve a forum all to themselves! Yeah! :laugh:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-18-2006 10:11 AM Dan Carroll has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Omnivorous, posted 04-18-2006 3:36 PM lfen has not yet responded

  
Prev123
4
5Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019