Re-enactments of the Noah's Ark voyage?

I may have mentioned this elsewhere here, but has anyone tried to do a re-enactment of Noah's legendary voyage?One would have to fake it a bit, like having a tug tow an Ark replica into the middle of some big lake or sea. And this replica would have to have running lights and modern communication and navigation systems, in order to keep it from being a navigation hazard.But given the numerous other re-enactments of notable events, like the recent would-be re-enactment of the Wright brothers' first successful powered flights, why not a re-enactment of Noah's voyage?

Well, the Wright brothers flight really occurred.If you do Noah's voyage then you might as well re-enact the flight of Icarus, Jack climbing the beanstalk and Jason seeking the Golden Fleece.

No, all one would need in this regard is enough rain to raise the ark with the balast stones it would likely have attached, afloat from the dry land it was built on. The only navigational hazard it would entail would be hazards to itself if it should hit a mountain. But likely there were no tall mountains because these were created subsequent to the launch by uplift from the weight of water which was once in the atmosphere on the various thicknesses of earth crust, sinking the oceans and uplifting the mountains. Impossible, that is unless you can convince the Almighty to re-enact his supernatural role in the ark account. [This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-25-2003]

Eta_Carinae:
If you do Noah's voyage then you might as well re-enact the flight of Icarus, Jack climbing the beanstalk and Jason seeking the Golden Fleece.On the subject of Daedalus's and Icarus's flight, someone has actually performed an approximation of it -- Kanellos Kanellopoulos flew an ultralight airplane from Iraklion, Crete (near Knossos) to Santorini (Thera) in 1988. However, he was a professional cyclist who piloted a big ultralight airplane and supplied its motive power in cyclist fashion.However, with Mycenaean-Greek-level technology, it may have been possible to build a wood-and-cloth hang glider, as Otto Lilenthal had done in the late 19th cy. But it would not have flown nearly as far. But at least one would not have to worry about getting too close to the Sun.As to Jack and the Beanstalk, a fair approximation is climbing tall trees. I'm not sure who's the record holder for altitude climbed, however. Perhaps someone climbing one of California's giant redwoods.As to Jason and the Argonauts, I don't know who has tried to re-enact it, if anyone. But I remember a documentary that attempted to visit places that may have inspired the details of Homer's Odyssey. The Laestrygonians were likely Scandinavians; Norway and Sweden have rocky fjords and nearly 24-hour summer daytime, summer being the likely time that a seafaring visitor would visit. Scylla and Charybdis were likely at the Straits of Messina between mainland Italy and Sicily; Scylla was an exaggeration of fish observers atop towers, while Charybdis was some treacherous currents above a rocky seabed. Circe or Calypso could have been those statues of fat women in Malta; those were likely of some early deity of fertility/motherhood. The Cyclopes were likely inspired by the skulls of extinct elephants.[This message has been edited by lpetrich, 12-25-2003]

Buzsaw, that is very literal-minded. I'm thinking about trying to approximate Noah's legendary voyage. We cannot make a planetwide flood on command, so we have to approximate its effects by towing the Ark replica into some big body of water.(If people have re-enacted other notable events, then why not Noah's voyage?) A very literal-minded comment. When Jesus Christ said that his followers are "the salt of the earth", did that mean that his followers become turned into pillars of salt, like Lot's wife?

I would like to simply see a wooden box built, the proper number of cubits long, with a single window up top. Then, I'd like to see eight of the execs from AiG and ICR shut themselves up inside with two of every "kind" for a year or so, with no electricity and no resupply except rainwater. It wouldn't even need to float - a parking lot somewhere would be OK.When the year was up, they could send out a raven, and then we could check for survivors.

buzsaw writes:

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But likely there were no tall mountains because these were created subsequent to the launch by uplift from the weight of water which was once in the atmosphere on the various thicknesses of earth crust, sinking the oceans and uplifting the mountains.

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Geologically false. Mt. Everest was pretty much just as tall in 2250 BCE as it is today.Meteorologically false. There is no way to suspend that much water in the atmosphere without raising the temperature and pressure at the surface of the earth to such an extreme that Noah would have been instantly cooked like a roast.Hydrologically false: The water in the oceans are not the cause of the mountains. The oceans contain over 97% of the world's water and yet they do not support the mountains.Topologically impossible: There is no way to flood the entire earth using only the water that currently exists. Again, 97% of the earth's water is in the oceans. Therefore, it cannot be used to flood the dry land areas since it is already at the lowest point. We need water in addition to what is already there. The atmosphere only contains enough water to coat the earth with about an inch of liquid water...but it would immediate evaporate back into the atmosphere, so it can't be used, either.The only way to flood the entire earth is to find an extra-terrestrial source of water and then to have the flood recede, it would have to go back out into space.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Whether Noah's Flood could possibly have occurred is an entirely separate question; I suggest that you either start a new thread or add some message to an existing thread on that subject.I was asking about why nobody's willing to re-enact at least an approximation of Noah's legendary voyage, complete with taking care of a whole onboard zoo.In the Philippines, there seems to be no shortage of young men who are willing to let themselves be tied or nailed to crosses in Holy-Week re-enactments of Jesus Christ's crucifixion. And in the US, fundies have been willing to build "Christian theme parks." So why stuff like this and not Noah's Ark?

lpetrich responds to me...I think...he doesn't say:

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Whether Noah's Flood could possibly have occurred is an entirely separate question

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No, not really. The physical mechanics of the flood would be part of re-enactments. There are many questions involved in whether or not it would work. Creating a craft of the appropriate size and laden with the appropriate weight is one thing, but gently launching it out to see ignores a huge aspect of the flood:It was pouring rain.It supposedly rained for 40 days and nights. Would the wood hold up under such a barrage? We'll have to know just how much water was falling in order to determine how much trauma the boat received over that time period.Lessee...5 miles of water (in order to cover Mt. Everest), that's 316,800 inches. 40 days, that's 57,600 minutes.That means the ark would have been subjected to a downpour of 5.5 inches per minute continually for 40 days.Would the wood survive? Would the craft tip over?But if we didn't need nearly so much water because of the topographic layout of the earth, things become different. Of course, we then have to trade downpour for hydronamic currents: The ocean floor dropping away and the mountains rising cause tsunami. Would the craft survive?There are lots of parts of re-enactment that need to be taken into account. While I don't think there would be a problem with putting someone on a boat with sufficient provisions for a year to survive, that isn't all there is to it.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Rrhain is apparently asking for a remake of Noah's Flood, complete with a 40-day rainstorm. One could build a roof over a large drydock and install sprinklers on it, I suppose. Noah's Ark had dimensions 150 m * 25 m * 15 m (1 cubit ~ 1/2 m), meaning a maximum displacement of about 56000 tons; it could fit into a large drydock. I did an Internet search for "drydock size" and I found some ones that that legendary vessel could easily fit into.I see no problem in surviving all that rain, at least if the roof can be kept from leaking. The big problems are winds and waves.

After some fast cypherin', Rrhain deduces, "That means the ark would have been subjected to a downpour of 5.5 inches per minute continually for 40 days;" and asks, "would the wood survive?"Well, first we gotta determine just what "gopherwood" is and then find enough of it to build an Ark replica. Then we gotta figure out the proper application rate and drying time for "pitch." But I reckon anything is possible, having been raised with concepts like "The Little Engine That Could."By the way, Rrhain, thanks for those calcs ... 5.5 inches per minute ... WHEW! I've experienced 5.5 inches per hour rainfall intensity before, and lemme tell'ya, that's intense! Anyhow, now at least one mystery is solved in my mind, and that's what happened to all the manure that was shovelled over the side of the Ark. I mean can you imagine the volume? My oh my, there would be a virtual island of smelly flotsom surrounding the Ark for miles in all directions. But then with rainfall intensities like 5.5 inches per minute I can understand the rapid break-up and dispersal of such a raft of poo.[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-26-2003]

God said to build an ark kjv genesis 6:14, how does the salmon swim up stream, engineers, probably understand fluid dynamics (vortex energies), explaining to a trout fishermen, how trout are able to maintain a stationary position facing into a fast moving stream of water, with little effort, even today, if your sea boat loses power, in a storm, your instructed to throw out your sea anchors, it serves as a stabilizing ballast, the waves then flow around your boat, Noah had iron and brass available kjv genesis 4:22. like simple metal sluice gates that could be opened and closed to flush out wastes, metal hinges on the main door, etc...the windows on the top of the ark for ventilation kjv genesis 6:16, with simple siphons to draw water in, or flush fluids out, with extra ballast, the ark would of rode lower within the wave base, making it extremely stable, etc...

Gee, whatever, you make is sound almost like someone has done some engineering on an ark like craft. I've heard it said that a wooden ship of that size would break up, that it can't be built. I guess the creationist organizations have done the engineering to show that to be incorrect eh?Of course, if they haven't one might be a bit suspicious.

While you're at it perhaps you could drop over to this thread:
http://EvC Forum: Paleobotany falsifies the Noaic Flood -->EvC Forum: Paleobotany falsifies the Noaic Floodand explain the distribution of plant fossils. You see, it doesn't matter much discussing the cleaning up of ark poop if we can determine that the flood couldn't have and didn't happen at all.

Let us see. We have a wooden ship that starts at essentially sea level.In forty days it rises to at least the height of Mt. Everest.The rainfall would have been 40 days times 24 hours per day times 60 minutes per hour = 57600 minutes. Everest is 29000 feet times 12 inches in a foot = 348000 inches.348000 inches divided by 57600 minute = 6.6 inches per minute. As a comparison let us look at this info I pulled off the web. That is right 6.6 inches in 24 hours! Abshalom you care to inform us of where you were during 5.5 in one hour please?So imagine the effects of high humidity on a wooden craft and the level of mould that would ensue to the detriment of creatures who lived aboard for 150 days. I am not certain myself but if the oceans were now at 29000 feet what effect has that upon the temperature of the atmosphere which now must deal with total saturation by this rainfall.I am not sure what the evidence given by the creationists is to explain where the water came from for the rainfall but they should try and give an explanation of what effect an altitude of 29000 feet has upon the rainfall.Do we imagine that the elevation increase would also increase the likelihood of precipitation becoming snow?Brrr. Did they have central heating on the ark? High humidity, mould ,freezing temperatures ,swelling of timbers, cracking and creep of pitch under strain, leaks.The endless problems that this alone produces is one of many that they would have to deal withOh well I guess I am just nitpicking after all.------------------
Chemical kinetics firmly restrains time's arrow in the taut bow of thermodynamics for milliseconds to millennia.