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Author Topic:   Is morality absolute or relative?
jar
Member
Posts: 31774
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 136 of 150 (320540)
06-11-2006 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Rob
06-11-2006 1:45 PM


Re: Topic Rob
Yes I have jar. Over and over again. You are unable to hear, because you insist that I play by rules that you contend are not real.

Please point out where I have done so.

You then try to hold me accountable to your rules, even though I am free to play by my own.

A good example of relativity of morals but we were looking for absolutes.

I think we are all accountable to God's rules. Otherwise this exchange is meaningless.

I too believe that we will all be held accountable by GOD. But what does that have to do with the thread or topic?

I'm not talking about my feelings... but if I am according to you, why do you feel the need to say that I am wrong?

Because the concept of Absolute Morality, like the concept that Jesus died for our sins, are among the lies being taught by far too many Christian Clergy these days. It obscures and confounds the message that GOD has given to us, particularly the message that is a constant in the Bible from beginning to end.

I feel that as a Christian it is my duty to point out to you that you just don't get it. You don't have a clue what GOD's message is.

In the Bible stories we get the first hint in Genesis. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We ate the fruit of the tree and so know what is right, and what is wrong. GOD expects us to try to do what is right.

This is not something unique to Christians, all mankind knows right from wrong, and all mankind is charged to try to do what is right.

But what the right thing to do is will depend on each circumstance, each incident. That is why GOD gave us brains, to use them to try to figure out what is right instead of simply a set of rules.

The Bible tells us that GOD felt we didn't get it, so through Moshe he gave us some more general guidlelines, the ten commandments, but even those are relative, general. Unfortunately mankind still didn't get it and turned them into laws which have no morality or justice.

So GOD, ever patient, became man. GOD became man. The Great Sacrifice. Jesus was human. Just like you, just like me. And Jesus tried yet again to 'splain things to folk.

Jesus said, it's simple.

"Love GOD (notice not worship or believe in or fear, but LOVE) and love others as you love yourselves."

Even that was too hard for many to understand so in Matthew 25 he tried to explain just what Love GOD meant.

Still, most Christians didn't and don't get the message. They don't understand what Love GOD means. But it is there, right there in Matthew 25, clear as can be. Jesus goes on to explain that it will NOT be Christians that get the message, but more often it will be Atheists and Agnostics and Satanists, and Hindus and Muslims and Taoists and Spinoazan Deists that will get it.

That is why the GOATs are surprised. They think they got it. They KNOW they are saved, and are shocked to find out that all along they were wrong. They, like you, blew it.

GOS's message is really simple.

Love GOD (not worship or believe in or fear, but LOVE).

And how does one do that?

Love others as you love yourself.

It really is that simple.

Simple, but not easy.

It says "Don't count on some get out of hell free card!" It says "Try to do what is right and not do what is wrong!" It says "When judgement day comes you will be judged by YOUR actions, not what Adam did, not what anyone else did, but what YOU did!"

It says "God has forgiven everyone, no one starts out damned. It is a level playing field and ALL mankind starts out forgiven, Atheist, Agnostic, Jew, Christian, Satanist, Wiccan, Buddhist, Muslim, Taoist or Hindu, everybody!"

GOD's message is simple. She knows many won't get it, and She will make allowances and give them every benefit of the doubt, but many, mostly Christians, will never get it.

I only hope that by speaking out I will hopefully be able to show you just how wrong you are.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 1:45 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:49 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 139 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:52 PM jar has responded
 Message 140 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:55 PM jar has not yet responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 137 of 150 (320541)
06-11-2006 2:46 PM


Don't you folks get it?
Absolutes are not something you can prove... They are something you cannot deny without talking nonsense!

You cannot prove your existence! How do you know that you are here unless you are omniscient.

"who are you?" and "Where is here?"

You see, we don't have the answers to those questions, but even so, to deny your existence would be the best way to confirm it.

Rene Descartes. Only one thing you can't doubt... That there is a doubter doing the doubting.

Morality is like that. We cannot deny that it is absolute, without implying that it is immoral to suggest that it is.


Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 138 of 150 (320542)
06-11-2006 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
06-11-2006 2:44 PM


Re: Topic Rob
This is not something unique to Christians, all mankind knows right from wrong, and all mankind is charged to try to do what is right.

My point exactly! It is universal and absolute...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 06-11-2006 2:44 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 139 of 150 (320544)
06-11-2006 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
06-11-2006 2:44 PM


Re: Topic Rob
That is why the GOATs are surprised. They think they got it. They KNOW they are saved, and are shocked to find out that all along they were wrong.

There is no wrong according to you...

I have no assurance of salvation. Why do you think I go through all this? I'd be out living it up if I felt good about it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 06-11-2006 2:44 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 06-11-2006 2:55 PM Rob has responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 140 of 150 (320545)
06-11-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
06-11-2006 2:44 PM


Re: Topic Rob
I only hope that by speaking out I will hopefully be able to show you just how wrong you are.

Welcome to the fundamentalist and judgemental club sucker!

Boys, that was like fishing for crappies in a bath tub. Hey Ernie, give the house another round on me!

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 06-11-2006 2:44 PM jar has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31774
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 141 of 150 (320546)
06-11-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Rob
06-11-2006 2:52 PM


Quit misrepresenting what I say Rob.
Rob writes:

There is no wrong according to you...

Please point out where I say that. Why is it that so many Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christians seem to think that lying for Jesus is okay?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:52 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:59 PM jar has responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 142 of 150 (320547)
06-11-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by jar
06-11-2006 2:55 PM


Re: Quit misrepresenting what I say Rob.
Rob writes:
There is no wrong according to you...

Please point out where I say that. Why is it that so many Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christians seem to think that lying for Jesus is okay?

Are you ready jar??????????

Is it absolutely true that I am wrong?

c'mon i'm waiting... yes or no?

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 06-11-2006 2:55 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 3:02 PM Rob has not yet responded
 Message 146 by jar, posted 06-11-2006 3:05 PM Rob has not yet responded
 Message 148 by crashfrog, posted 06-11-2006 3:08 PM Rob has not yet responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 143 of 150 (320548)
06-11-2006 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Rob
06-11-2006 2:59 PM


Re: Quit misrepresenting what I say Rob.
CHECKMATE!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:59 PM Rob has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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nator
Member (Idle past 511 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 144 of 150 (320550)
06-11-2006 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Rob
06-11-2006 12:40 PM


thanks for answering!
Do you hate Santa Claus? Yes or no?

quote:
No!

Why not?

Do you hate Krishna? Yes or no?

quote:
No!

Why not?

Do you hate the Great Galactic Goat? Yes or no?

quote:
What is the great galactic goat?

Her Great Goatness would be greatly saddened that one of her flock has never even been made aware of her existence, but believe me, she does exist, and she is the Benevolent Ruler of All Existence.

Do you hate her?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 12:40 PM Rob has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 17671
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 145 of 150 (320551)
06-11-2006 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Rob
06-11-2006 3:02 PM


Re: Quit misrepresenting what I say Rob.
Rob writes:

CHECKMATE!

:laugh: All you've done so far is spout gibberish. You don't even know which way the pieces move.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 3:02 PM Rob has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31774
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 146 of 150 (320552)
06-11-2006 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Rob
06-11-2006 2:59 PM


Re: Quit misrepresenting what I say Rob.
Is it absolutely true that I am wrong?

I gave up playing silly word games when I was about six or so.

I believe that you are wrong.

Does it matter whether it is absolutely true that you are wrong, or just that you are relatively wrong, or that you just plain can't answer the questions raised in your OP?

It is entirely possible that at some time in the future you will get around to providing an example of Abolute Morality, but as of this point in the thread, you have not done so.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:59 PM Rob has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 511 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 147 of 150 (320553)
06-11-2006 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Rob
06-11-2006 2:49 PM


Re: Topic Rob
quote:
It is universal and absolute...

Is it a moral absolute that it is wrong to kill?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:49 PM Rob has not yet responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 150 (320554)
06-11-2006 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Rob
06-11-2006 2:59 PM


Re: Quit misrepresenting what I say Rob.
Is it absolutely true that I am wrong?

Yes, it is.

Oh, I get it. You think that we reject "absolute morality" because we reject all absolutes.

This is going to blow your mind - we accept absolutes. No, we do. Really. But just because absolutes exist doesn't mean that any giving thing is one of them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Rob, posted 06-11-2006 2:59 PM Rob has not yet responded

Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 149 of 150 (320561)
06-11-2006 3:26 PM


Disaster area topic? - Closing it down
My intent is that this is a permanent closure, UNLESS someone makes a convincing case at the "Thread Reopen Requests" topic, link below.

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

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Admin
Director
Posts: 12653
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 150 of 150 (320628)
06-11-2006 7:59 PM


A Request
Opening this just briefly for a comment.

It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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