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Author Topic:   Why is the Intelligent Designer so inept?
Agobot
Member (Idle past 4769 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 136 of 352 (478529)
08-16-2008 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Coyote
08-16-2008 7:09 PM


Re: Your's is not the only designer
Coyote writes:

The Creation of Men and Women

When the world was finished, there were as yet no people, but the Bald Eagle was chief of the animals. He saw that the world was incomplete and decided to make some human beings. So he took some clay and modeled the figure of a man and laid him on the ground. At first he was very small but he grew rapidly until he reached normal size. But as yet he had no life; he was still asleep. Then the Bald Eagle stood and admired his work. "It is impossible," he said, "that he should be left alone; he must have a mate." So he pulled out a feather and laid it beside the sleeping man. Then he left them and went off a short distance, for he knew that a woman was being formed from the feather. But the man was still asleep and did not know what was happening. When the Bald Eagle decided that the woman was about completed, he returned, awoke the man by flapping his wings over him and flew away.
The man opened his eyes and stared at the woman. "What does this mean?" he asked. "I thought I was alone!" Then the Bald Eagle returned and said with a smile, "I see you have a mate! Have you had intercourse with her?" "No," replied he man, for he and the woman knew nothing about each other. Then the Bald Eagle called to Coyote who happened to be going by and said to him, "Do you see that woman? Try her first!" Coyote was quite willing and complied, but immediately afterwards lay down and died. The Bald Eagle went away and left Coyote dead, but presently returned and revived him. "How did it work?" said the Bald Eagle. "Pretty well, but it nearly kills a man!" replied Coyote. "Will you try it again?" said the Bald Eagle. Coyote agreed, and tried again, and this time survived. Then the Bald Eagle turned to the man and said, "She is all right now; you and she are to live together.

For the sake of religions, I hope you have made this story up. The Bald Eagle kind of reminds me of the flying Jesus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Coyote, posted 08-16-2008 7:09 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Coyote, posted 08-16-2008 8:10 PM Agobot has taken no action

Coyote
Member (Idle past 1345 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 137 of 352 (478530)
08-16-2008 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Agobot
08-16-2008 7:41 PM


Re: Your's is not the only designer
For the sake of religions, I hope you have made this story up. The Bald Eagle kind of reminds me of the flying Jesus.

No, I did not make that up. That is a Native American creation story collected in Central California about 1908-1910.

There are hundreds more such stories from throughout the country, and probably thousands more from throughout the world. All have about the same evidence supporting them (i.e., none).


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 644 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 138 of 352 (478532)
08-16-2008 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by cavediver
08-15-2008 5:51 PM


off topic
dadburn it, I need your input on Uranium Halos

Enjoy paris (just don't stay at the hilton)

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Changed link from "Proposed New Topics" version to "Dates and Dating" version.


This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 139 of 352 (478539)
08-16-2008 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Agobot
08-16-2008 7:24 PM


Re: Provoking the designer
Agobot writes:

I love this part about the all loving god taking revenge on us humans. Doesn't that imply that god is a sadistic vindictive and cruel deity for inflicting so much pain on us? If, as you say, god is bringing death, shorter lives and sickness, why on earth does your religion need to have a devil? Isn't that devil's territory? Where is the boundery?

Free choice designed into the intelligent creatures, both celestial and earthly. The omnipotent and omniscient designer always remains supreme effecting eventual good from the choices creatures make. Satan and his angels/demons know their time is short.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
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lyx2no
Member (Idle past 3955 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 140 of 352 (478540)
08-16-2008 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Buzsaw
08-16-2008 9:01 AM


Re: Explain — Not Assert
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I was, um, busy.

The Devil? The heavenly rebel who, with his rebel angels have effected the diminishment of the Edenic humans designed to live forever; who corrupted most of the humans on earth so as to effect the necessity of the global flood; who have demonized and deterioriated divinely designed humans to what we are today and who have instigated warfare, corruption and apostacy from truth globally?

Yes.


Kindly

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞

When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel … everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?


This message is a reply to:
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 202 days)
Posts: 3966
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 141 of 352 (478541)
08-17-2008 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Buzsaw
08-16-2008 6:57 PM


Re: Provoking the designer
My message was about provoking the designer and the decline of humanity from the designer's model. One man and woman were designed and created. They were created perfect and not to die. The rest of humanity procreated from the original pair which despite the fall, lived many centuries until nearly all of them teed off the designer to the point of near annihilation and shorter lifespan for the survivors and their descendent's.

Beginning with the first couple, it was departure from the creator's law which effected deterioration of procreated humans bringing on death, shorter lives and sickness etc.

So, your position is that your deity added the appendix and tailbone, combined the breathing/eating tubes into one, restructured the human eye to be inferior to other eyes, and generally completely redid the "perfect" human body into the substandard version we see today, becasue we "departed from the creator's law?"

Wow. That's a really odd combination of the Loki-like trickster who wants to make everything look exactly like he doesnt exist, and a royal dick throwing a tantrum.

It's incredibly funny that your attempt to refute the fact that the human body does not objectively appear to be designed is "It was designed well, but all the crappy stuff was tacked on later." It's exactly the same as the retarded explanation for why light from distant stars has reached Earth in such a short timeframe - "God created the light en-route." It's simple apologetics. Ignore what the evidence actually shows, and instead create idiotic excuses that warp the evidence into meaning the exact opposite to support a preconceived conclusion.

By all objective appearances, the human body has no direct designer. This means if we assume that there was a designer, he must be working incredibly hard at hiding his presence, or be completely incompetent (and possibly also being a giant asshole). None of these, of course, fit the Christian deity, and so it's easy to see by their reactions to this topic that all of these moronic cdesign proponentists are not really interested in ID or science at all, but rather are simply trying to weasel their completely subjective and unsupported beliefs into common acceptance.

Edited by Rahvin, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1345 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 142 of 352 (478542)
08-17-2008 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Rahvin
08-17-2008 12:08 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
By all objective appearances, the human body has no direct designer.

The pain mechanism should have told you that by itself. There is no dimmer switch! Talk about a Rube Goldberg device.

You talk about breathing and eating with the same tube? How about routing half of waste disposal system through the pleasure centers? Freshman in shop class would be flunked for that one.

it's easy to see by their reactions to this topic that all of these moronic cdesign proponentists are not really interested in ID or science at all, but rather are simply trying to weasel their completely subjective and unsupported beliefs into common acceptance.

Creation "science" as usual.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 2384
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 143 of 352 (478543)
08-17-2008 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Buzsaw
08-16-2008 6:57 PM


Re: Provoking the designer
Beginning with the first couple, it was departure from the creator's law which effected deterioration of procreated humans bringing on death, shorter lives and sickness etc.

Let me get this straight.

Adam and Eve were born perfect. Only after the fall did they become imperfect. Thus, the sort of imperfections we have been complaining about in this thread are the result of the sinful actions of Adam and Eve and some of their more immediate descendants.

That means that the untold millions who have had their lives blighted by Down's syndrome, sickle cell anaemia, cystic fibrosis, haemophilia and countless other maladies are suffering the effects of a divine punishment aimed at people who died millennia ago.

How utterly monstrous.

It is all very well to bleat about free will, but what free will does a child born with fragile-x syndrome have? Are really expecting us to believe that individuals who can't even be held responsible for themselves are being held responsible for the acts of their long-dead ancestors, by an omnibenevolent god?

God set the tests here. He defined the parameters of good and evil, according to your story. He set the punishments, knowing the consequences, knowing that mankind would fail and that countless millions would suffer terribly for acts they did not commit. He is omniscient isn't he? He must have seen it coming. He did it anyway.

These are not the actions of an intelligent, benevolent being. They are the actions of a murderous psychopath. I'm glad I don't believe in such a foul creature.


Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Buzsaw, posted 08-16-2008 6:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Buzsaw, posted 08-17-2008 10:16 AM Granny Magda has replied
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 352 (478547)
08-17-2008 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Granny Magda
08-17-2008 12:30 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Since all are procreated (not created) we inherit effects of what came before. Thus all the warnings from the designer along the way. Ignore the designer and your descendent's suffer. Don't blame the designer.

It's like the blessings of America such as freedom, prosperity, justice etc. We ignore the principles which brought them about and we loose them for us and our descendants.

Don't blame the auto maker if you ignore the instruction manual regarding servicing the product.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Granny Magda, posted 08-17-2008 12:30 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Agobot, posted 08-17-2008 10:36 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 149 by cavediver, posted 08-17-2008 11:30 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 151 by Granny Magda, posted 08-17-2008 2:23 PM Buzsaw has replied
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Agobot
Member (Idle past 4769 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 145 of 352 (478548)
08-17-2008 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Granny Magda
08-17-2008 12:30 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
granny Magda writes:

These are not the actions of an intelligent, benevolent being. They are the actions of a murderous psychopath. I'm glad I don't believe in such a foul creature.

After the blasphemy of this thread, i'd expect the benevolent designer to take a minute or two off his murdering-our-innocent-children agenda and take down the servers of EVC.


This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 352 (478549)
08-17-2008 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Coyote
08-17-2008 12:25 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Coyote writes:

The pain mechanism should have told you that by itself. There is no dimmer switch! Talk about a Rube Goldberg device.

Thankfully so. If symptoms were dimable, nothing would be done to fix the damage. Also the weak of the species would survive to corrupt the offspring.

Coyote writes:

You talk about breathing and eating with the same tube? How about routing half of waste disposal system through the pleasure centers? Freshman in shop class would be flunked for that one.

You're not making good sense here. Why encumber the system with unnecessary tubes and apparatus when functions can be combined. This is argument for the wonders of design and glory to the omniscient designer.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Coyote, posted 08-17-2008 12:25 AM Coyote has taken no action

Replies to this message:
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 Message 150 by subbie, posted 08-17-2008 12:34 PM Buzsaw has taken no action
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Agobot
Member (Idle past 4769 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 147 of 352 (478550)
08-17-2008 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Buzsaw
08-17-2008 10:16 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Buzsaw writes:

It's like the blessings of America such as freedom, prosperity, justice etc. We ignore the principles which brought them about and we loose them for us and our descendants.

How would the descendants be held liable for the mistakes of their fathers? Do you hold the current German youth accountable for what their fathers and the Nazis did? You truly have a very pathetic president and administration but when they are gone the world will look at the USA in a different way. With that in mind, how could a dying child with leukemia be the scape-goat of someone that ate a stupid apple 6000 years ago?

Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 2883 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 148 of 352 (478553)
08-17-2008 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Buzsaw
08-17-2008 10:28 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Coyote writes:


You talk about breathing and eating with the same tube? How about routing half of waste disposal system through the pleasure centers? Freshman in shop class would be flunked for that one.

Buzsaw writes:

You're not making good sense here. Why encumber the system with unnecessary tubes and apparatus when functions can be combined. This is argument for the wonders of design and glory to the omniscient designer.

:laugh: wonders of design??? :laugh: You really have to have your head up your arse to declare that the penis is a wonder of design :rolleyes:

I give you Kryten on the penis:

quote:
It's hideous! That's the best design they could come up with? Are you seriously telling me there were choices, and someone said "Ah, there, that's it. That's the shape we're looking for: The last-chicken-in-the-shop look?" Shakespeare had one? Einstein? Perry Como sang "Memories are Made of This" with one of those stashed in his slacks?

This message is a reply to:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 2883 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 149 of 352 (478554)
08-17-2008 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Buzsaw
08-17-2008 10:16 AM


Re: Provoking the designer
Ignore the designer and your descendent's suffer. Don't blame the designer.

Did the designer not design us to inherit the effects of the sins of our ancestors - i.e. Adam? How can we NOT blame the designer? Or did God have to design us that way? Did he not have any choice in the matter?


This message is a reply to:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 494 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 150 of 352 (478555)
08-17-2008 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Buzsaw
08-17-2008 10:28 AM


News Flash! Buzsaw accepts evolution!
quote:
Also the weak of the species would survive to corrupt the offspring.

As concise a statement of descent with modification as anyone could ask for. Buz, you are now an "evilutionist." Welcome to the fold!


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
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