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Author Topic:   Heaven: How to Get In
Stile
Member
Posts: 3465
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 16 of 91 (522638)
09-04-2009 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Teapots&unicorns
09-04-2009 9:19 AM


Re: Heaven
Teapots&unicorns writes:

Hi Stile, and thanks for your answer. However, your idea of an ideal test is obviously not what others have.

Considering the other ideas that have been presented, I'll take that as a compliment

No problem, I think the topic you have here is very interesting. I'll be following this thread. I know you likely found the answer I provided to be a bit... not what you're trying to focus on... but it wasn't so much for you, as it was meant for others who come here looking for honest answers that actually make sense. Don't worry, that was all I wanted to say about the matter, I'll slink back into the lurking shadows now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-04-2009 9:19 AM Teapots&unicorns has acknowledged this reply

    
Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 3024 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 17 of 91 (522641)
09-04-2009 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Peg
09-04-2009 10:14 AM


Re: Heaven
So it can't be predestination becuase that implies that no matter what their course is, they will get into heaven. Its as the apostles said...if we are faithful and go on enduring they will rule as kings.

Rule over whom, may I ask?

Edited by Teapots&unicorns, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:14 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 11:24 PM Teapots&unicorns has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 18 of 91 (522660)
09-04-2009 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Teapots&unicorns
09-04-2009 9:19 AM


Re: Heaven
Hi Teapot,


Teapot&unicorns writes:

To everyone, of any (abrahamic) religon, do you get into heaven through faith alone, acts, baptism, or any combination of the above. Thank you.

In message 4 I gave you all the requirements given by God who was with us.

Any other requirement is man made.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-04-2009 9:19 AM Teapots&unicorns has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-04-2009 1:13 PM ICANT has responded
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Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 3024 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 19 of 91 (522679)
09-04-2009 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ICANT
09-04-2009 11:36 AM


Re: Heaven
In message 4 I gave you all the requirements given by God who was with us.

Any other requirement is man made.

ICANT, I may just be not getting this, but humor me please. Define "born again."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ICANT, posted 09-04-2009 11:36 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 09-04-2009 5:51 PM Teapots&unicorns has responded

  
dogrelata
Member (Idle past 3448 days)
Posts: 201
From: Scotland
Joined: 08-04-2006


Message 20 of 91 (522684)
09-04-2009 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ICANT
09-04-2009 11:36 AM


Re: Heaven
ICANT writes:

In message 4 I gave you all the requirements given by God who was with us.

Any other requirement is man made.

I read The Case For Jesus by Lee Strobel some years ago. I seem to recall one or two of those supplying expert testimony going to great lengths to explain how Jesus ‘emptied himself of his divinity’ on many occasions, in order that he be no more than his fellow human.

Purely out of curiosity, how do you differentiate between those proclamations that were attributed to Jesus when he was simply a human, and those made when he was the embodiment of the ‘holy spirit’?


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onifre
Member (Idle past 1087 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 21 of 91 (522713)
09-04-2009 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns
09-03-2009 11:10 AM


So please, how do you get into heaven

I figure you're going to get explanations of how to get into Christian Heaven, but that's not the only game in town. Like when buying real estate, you need to shop around and see which location best suits you.

So I'll explain how to get into Muslim Heaven, and maybe you find this heaven easier to get into, or a better fit for you.

For Muslims, since they have no original sin, everyone has the same potential to get into Heaven – in fact Muslims believe a child who dies goes to Heaven regardless of the religion of his or her parents.

In Muslim Heaven there are different levels. Muslims believe there are different levels of Heaven but there is no solid number on just how many there are - (although some Islamic texts do say there are seven). The levels of Heaven represent closeness to God – the higher the level the closer to the understanding of Allah.

If one becomes a Martyr, it gets you closer to Allah than if one is simply a good person.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
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Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 3024 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 22 of 91 (522717)
09-04-2009 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by onifre
09-04-2009 3:10 PM


Thank you Oni. If only all religions had as clear a system as that...
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 23 of 91 (522755)
09-04-2009 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Teapots&unicorns
09-04-2009 1:13 PM


Re: Heaven
Hi Teapot,

Teapots&unicorns writes:

ICANT, I may just be not getting this, but humor me please. Define "born again."

Be glad to.

But you did state in the OP you wanted the requirements which I gave you.

There was a Pharisee named Nicodemus who was ruler of the Jews who wanted to know how he could be born again.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

So to explain what it means to be born again is simple.

You must be born from above by the Spirit of God.

Now this is where we get into different opinions by man.

How is one born of the Spirit?

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

To be born of the Spirit:
You must believe that God is.
You must believe God will do what He says He will do.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus says those hearing and believing on God hath everlasting life.

So when a person is born of the Spirit he has ceased being condemned and has everlasting life.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-04-2009 1:13 PM Teapots&unicorns has responded

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Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 3024 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 24 of 91 (522763)
09-04-2009 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ICANT
09-04-2009 5:51 PM


Re: Heaven
So basically, just having faith in God.
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Peg
Member (Idle past 3066 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 25 of 91 (522793)
09-04-2009 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Teapots&unicorns
09-04-2009 10:48 AM


Re: Heaven
Teapots&Unicorns writes:

Rule over whom, may I ask?

exactly. Most people who believe they are going to heaven have no idea what the role of those going to heaven will be. Its was explained by John in vision

He explained that Christ will not be alone to judge the world of mankind.”

quote:
Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them.... And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.

When Jesus was on the stake, the man alongside ask to be remmebered when jesus got into his kingdom. In answer he said

Luke 23:43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

So obviously this man was not born again. He had never been baptized, nor had he been a worshiper of God. He was a criminal who was sentenced to death. So he wasnt going to heaven to rule with Christ as a judge and priest. Yet Jesus said that he would be with him in 'paradise'

So the man had a hope of entering paradise...this paradise will be full of people who Jesus, and those with him, will be ruling over. The hebrew scriptures talk alot about this earthly paradise...its the purpose that God has for mankind, to bring them back into the condition that Adam and Eve enjoyed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-04-2009 10:48 AM Teapots&unicorns has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-05-2009 8:19 AM Peg has responded

    
Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 3024 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 26 of 91 (522816)
09-05-2009 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Peg
09-04-2009 11:24 PM


Re: Heaven
Thank you Peg

Peg writes:

Teapots&Unicorns writes:

Rule over whom, may I ask?


exactly. Most people who believe they are going to heaven have no idea what the role of those going to heaven will be. Its was explained by John in vision

He explained that Christ will not be alone to judge the world of mankind.”

quote:
Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them.... And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.

So what is the criteria for being a judge beside Jesus? (Judgin' 4 Jesus)

When Jesus was on the stake, the man alongside ask to be remmebered when jesus got into his kingdom. In answer he said

Luke 23:43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

So obviously this man was not born again. He had never been baptized, nor had he been a worshiper of God. He was a criminal who was sentenced to death. So he wasnt going to heaven to rule with Christ as a judge and priest. Yet Jesus said that he would be with him in 'paradise'

So the man had a hope of entering paradise...this paradise will be full of people who Jesus, and those with him, will be ruling over. The hebrew scriptures talk alot about this earthly paradise...its the purpose that God has for mankind, to bring them back into the condition that Adam and Eve enjoyed.

So either Jesus played favorites or there is no "hell" and everone goes to the same place once they die, thus removing the need for God to be self evident. So, it is basically like the Muslim heaven that Oni mentioned before. However, if the whole afterlife idea is to return us to the Garden of Eden state... Yeah.

Edited by Teapots&unicorns, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Peg
Member (Idle past 3066 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 27 of 91 (522818)
09-05-2009 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Teapots&unicorns
09-05-2009 8:19 AM


Re: Heaven
Teaposts&unicorns writes:

So what is the criteria for being a judge beside Jesus? (Judgin' 4 Jesus)

its pretty much what you've already stated

conversion, baptism, faithfulness, good works etc but this is the same requirement for all christians. The difference with the heavenenly calling is that God chooses some christians to join Christ in heaven.
The following account is when 2 disciples asked for a position in Jesus kingdom, and he said that he could not give them a position, only God could.

quote:
Matt20: 20 Then the mother of the sons of Zeb′e·dee approached him with her sons,...She said to him: “Give the word that these my two sons may sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.” ... 23 He said ...this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father

Teaposts&unicorns writes:

So either Jesus played favorites or there is no "hell" and everone goes to the same place once they die

Yes we do go to the same place. Its the hole in the ground where we are buried. Our end is the same end as all other animals, we are no different.

quote:
Ecclesiaties 3:19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity.

Ecclesiasties 9:5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all


this isnt to say that there is no hope though. Remember Jesus words to the dieing man "you will be with me in paradise"

this was a reference to the resurrection


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 Message 26 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-05-2009 8:19 AM Teapots&unicorns has acknowledged this reply

    
Bailey
Member (Idle past 2506 days)
Posts: 574
From: Earth
Joined: 08-24-2003


Message 28 of 91 (522836)
09-05-2009 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Teapots&unicorns
09-04-2009 9:19 AM


Re: Heaven
Thanks for the exchange brutha (or sista?) Tea&uni.
I hope things are going well with you & yours ...

I've been thinking about the nature of heaven, and realized that I do not know exactly how one gets in ....

PS please do not get into an argument over what heaven is. I just want the requirements for getting in ....

To everyone, of any (abrahamic) religon, do you get into heaven through faith alone, acts, baptism, or any combination of the above. Thank you.

Casting aside any specific definition of 'heaven', here's to hoping some friendly discussion may lead us towards it.

Yet, before entering into this sort of dialogue, I was hoping you may answer a question as honestly as possible.

Do you feel brother Joshua, the Anointed One, may have provided a way that can lead One towards 'heaven' ?

One Love


I'm not here to mock or condemn what you believe, tho my intentions are no less than to tickle your thinker.
If those in first century CE had known what these words mean ... 'I want and desire mercy, not sacrifice'
They surely would not have murdered the innocent; why trust what I say, when you can learn for yourself?
Think for yourself.

Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 09-04-2009 9:19 AM Teapots&unicorns has acknowledged this reply

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 29 of 91 (522873)
09-05-2009 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns
09-03-2009 11:10 AM


Getting into Heaven the Bible Way
It's not popular in Christian circles to say so nowadays, but ...

According to the Bible you go to heaven by doing good works.

The Judge of whether you've done well enough is Jesus.

Jesus says he'll make that determination based on whether you've done good or evil in John 5:29. He gives some specifics on what constitutes good or evil in Matthew 25:31-46. And he tells a few members of the church in Sardis that they will walk with him in white because they're worthy due to not defiling their garments. Since in Revelation garments are the righteous acts of the saints, this agrees with the other references.

Paul is often said to contradict James and Jesus, but he doesn't. Paul believed that a person was transformed from an old creature, dead in sin, to a new creation in Christ by faith only, but going to heaven is always by works in Paul's writings (e.g., Acts 26:20; Rom. 2:5-8; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; 2 Cor. 5:10; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7-10; Eph. 5:5-8).

James, of course, specifically says that we will be saved by works and not faith only in a famous passage.

Peter has a couple of great explanations of this. One, he says in 1 Pet. 1:17 that you should fear the one who will judge according to your works. Two, in 1 Pet. 4:18 he says that the righteous are "scarcely saved."

In other words, it's difficult for even the righteous to get into heaven.

That's the reason for grace. You're never going to be good enough without both God's mercy AND God's help. That's why grace "teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly, righteously, and godly" (Tit. 2:11-12). It also breaks sin's power over us (Rom. 6:14; 8:3-4).

So, if you're a Bible believer, that's the way you get to heaven. Historically, that's what the churches the apostles taught believed, too.

If you're not a Bible believer, well, then it's going to be difficult because it's hard to find people living the way the Bible describes so that you can see the power of grace. There's nothing like seeing to create belief. Preaching across the internet really doesn't work, though sometimes it does pique enough interest to get someone to come see what God can do when people give up all the doctrinal battles, surrender to Christ, and follow God together.


Proof of Evolution for those who love God's creation
Christian History for Everyman
Rose Creek Village, where I live
This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 30 of 91 (522877)
09-06-2009 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns
09-03-2009 11:10 AM


I recommend building a really tall tower.

I'm sure God won't mind.


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