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Author Topic:   Are you Racist? Homophobic? etc
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 578 (743703)
12-03-2014 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
12-03-2014 10:15 AM


... I do think these tests are looking at automatic responses and not whether we then think about and criticize our own auto responses ...
Supposedly they are looking at the time it takes to make the appropriate response, with usual associations being faster.
Problem is that one may be more familiar with one side than the other ... is lack of familiarity a bias?
I also did the weapons one and got "Your data suggest little or no association between White American and Black American with Harmless Objects and Weapons."
This does not surprise me as I just do not see that many people with weapons (and I like it like that). Sure I know people with weapons, but they don't wave them around in public.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 578 (743705)
12-03-2014 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
12-03-2014 2:54 PM


More like the difference between a real gun and a toy.
The boy in the store shot dead
The boy in the playground shot dead
A little more time before jumping to conclusions may have made a difference.
A person who waves a firearm aroundreal or 'realistically' fakegives up any expectation of safe treatment by law enforcement and accepts the possibility of finding a bullet between their eyes.
The police are charged with protecting the public; sometimes that means shooting first and asking questions later. If you make yourself a good shoot-first target, that's your own damn problem, not the officers' and not society's.
If it is the case that the police are shooting more black people waving around guns than they are white people waving around guns, the solution is for them to start shooting more gun-waving white people, not shooting fewer gun-waving black people.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2014 2:54 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2014 5:04 PM Jon has replied
 Message 21 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-03-2014 5:47 PM Jon has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8554
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 18 of 578 (743707)
12-03-2014 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
12-03-2014 2:54 PM


More like the difference between a real gun and a toy.
Yes, I know. But that wasn't as much fun to write.

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 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2014 2:54 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 19 of 578 (743715)
12-03-2014 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Jon
12-03-2014 3:34 PM


If it is the case that the police are shooting more black people waving around guns than they are white people waving around guns, the solution is for them to start shooting more gun-waving white people, not shooting fewer gun-waving black people.
You mean like the cap guns I used to have and would pretend shoot at everyone?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Jon, posted 12-03-2014 3:34 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 12-03-2014 5:36 PM RAZD has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 578 (743717)
12-03-2014 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by RAZD
12-03-2014 5:04 PM


You mean like the cap guns I used to have and would pretend shoot at everyone?
Depends on how real they looked. And on how well you complied with their orders when they asked to inspect the 'weapon'.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2014 5:04 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2014 11:11 PM Jon has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 21 of 578 (743719)
12-03-2014 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Jon
12-03-2014 3:34 PM


The police are charged with protecting the public; sometimes that means shooting first and asking questions later.
How often is sometimes?
Police In England And Wales Went Two Years Without Fatally Shooting Someone | FiveThirtyEight

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Jon, posted 12-03-2014 3:34 PM Jon has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 22 of 578 (743735)
12-03-2014 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jon
12-03-2014 5:36 PM


Depends on how real they looked. And on how well you complied with their orders when they asked to inspect the 'weapon'.
You really believe that?
Video: Cops Shot, Killed 12-Year-Old Two Seconds After Arriving at Park
The kid in the park, Tamir Rice, had an "airsoft" bb pistol, the cops shot him dead within seconds of their arrival ... there were no questions asked.
There are so many, so many, so many ... it can't be just coincidence.
Edited by RAZD, : type of gun

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Jon, posted 12-03-2014 5:36 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-03-2014 11:37 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 12-05-2014 11:18 AM RAZD has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 23 of 578 (743739)
12-03-2014 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by RAZD
12-03-2014 11:11 PM


The cartoon linked in the comments says it all.
http://i.kinja-img.com/..._80,w_636/vka7tsi41jkdtzrzqh2a.jpg

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 578 (743801)
12-04-2014 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
12-03-2014 11:37 PM


and
and I keep thinking about "Black Like Me"
Black Like Me, 50 Years Later | Arts & Culture| Smithsonian Magazine
may want to read it again ...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-03-2014 11:37 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 25 of 578 (743857)
12-05-2014 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by RAZD
12-03-2014 11:11 PM


Depends on how real they looked. And on how well you complied with their orders when they asked to inspect the 'weapon'.
You really believe that?
Video: Cops Shot, Killed 12-Year-Old Two Seconds After Arriving at Park
The kid in the park, Tamir Rice, had an "airsoft" bb pistol, the cops shot him dead within seconds of their arrival ... there were no questions asked.
There are so many, so many, so many ... it can't be just coincidence.
Looked into it more. Found the following:
  • The pistol was by no means clearly fake.
  • The report to police claimed he was waving it around.
  • The officer was not very good at his job, and probably shouldn't have been a cop just on the grounds that he was technically unqualified for the position.
These things taken together strongly question whether this incident was motivated by racist sentiments. It seems the actions of the boy were clearly threatening to average people (the reason the police showed up in the first place) and that the officer who shot him was inexperienced and prone to bad, over-reactive judgement under pressure (which this situation certainly was).
Not all cases of black people being shot are examples of police racism.
I think here we have a confusing situation misread by a poor cop. And that's based on the information I've found so far.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by RAZD, posted 12-03-2014 11:11 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 12-05-2014 12:58 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied
 Message 27 by RAZD, posted 12-05-2014 4:33 PM Jon has replied
 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2014 4:34 PM Jon has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 26 of 578 (743901)
12-05-2014 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jon
12-05-2014 11:18 AM


In fact all the recent cases of supposed racism in the deaths of blacks by white cops aren't racism. Witnesses against the cop in Ferguson admitted to the Grand Jury that they were lying and making things up because they wanted to believe the young man who was killed was a victim of racism. Or they believed what others had told them. Some said he was shot in the back, then admitted they didn't even see the event, and forensic evidence showed that he was not shot in the back. The cop was confronted by a young guy who seemed to be threatening him and reacted accordingly. If Brown had simply not come at him there would have been no shooting. But lies and hysteria prevailed.
The Garner case in New York city is a similar situation. The man had a long record and was caught illegally selling cigarettes again. He resisted arrest and kept pushing the cop away. The cop did what he was trained to do when resisted, he didn't do anything unusual or out of racist motives though the result was tragic nevertheless. And he was acquitted rightly.
Who is whipping up all this racist antagonism in these communities anyway? And what justifies looting and burning down the town? It's the black people who suffer from that too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 12-05-2014 11:18 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 27 of 578 (743921)
12-05-2014 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jon
12-05-2014 11:18 AM


Looked into it more. Found the following:
Good job.
The pistol was by no means clearly fake
Correct. ALSO clearly, there had been NO shooting by the kid (or the shooting of bbs was not noticed by anyone - air-guns don't make much noise).
As such there was a potential for danger - enough to proceed with caution -- but NO "clear and present danger" for the police to come in with guns blazing.
The report to police claimed he was waving it around.
Correct again, and again there were no reported shooting of the gun. It could have been a toy gun, a real gun with no ammo, or a loaded gun that had not yet been fired.
The officer was not very good at his job, and probably shouldn't have been a cop just on the grounds that he was technically unqualified for the position.
Indeed. He quit his previous rural police job before being let go, and applied to the big city to "see some action." So he was predisposed to violent response.
These things taken together strongly question whether this incident was motivated by racist sentiments.
As the racism test here (that you denigrated and declined to complete?) shows, people, especially white people are likely to have\harbour racist tendencies even when they think they don't. I scored higher on that than I thought I would. One of the things in that test was whether you associated violence with blacks more than with whites.
So the question is not whether the policeman was racist but whether he was more inclined to think a black kid had a real pistol than he would think a white kid had a real pistol in a similar situation.
I think the answer for a LOT of people to that question is yes, even if they don't think they are racist, but because of news reports associating black kids with crime and shooting more than white kids.
Not all cases of black people being shot are examples of police racism.
Not the overt racism of the old south, but the lingering racism embedded in our culture, especially in the culture of fear. I've lived down south and been told by the people there that they've "come a long way" ... but what I saw was that maybe 1 step out of 100 had been taken, that most of it was lip service. One lady told me "I love them, love them to death ... but I just don't want them in my neighborhood." The first part doesn't white-wash the second part.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 12-05-2014 11:18 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Jon, posted 12-06-2014 12:03 AM RAZD has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 28 of 578 (743922)
12-05-2014 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jon
12-05-2014 11:18 AM


But that's always how it works. You never get a situation where the cop says: "You're a nigger, so I'm going to shoot you for being a nigger ... is anyone taking this down? Great, 'cos I want to put that on record. So, to be perfectly clear about this, this is all about skin color." BANG!
But you do have to wonder what's going on.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/...her-home-beat-and-kidnap-her
... cue Faith explaining how it was her fault for being out of doors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 12-05-2014 11:18 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 12-05-2014 5:14 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 32 by Jon, posted 12-06-2014 12:11 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 29 of 578 (743924)
12-05-2014 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Dr Adequate
12-05-2014 4:34 PM


Of course I said nothing even remotely implying such an attitude but that doesn't stop the lies does it?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2014 4:34 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-05-2014 6:38 PM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 30 of 578 (743927)
12-05-2014 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
12-05-2014 5:14 PM


Of course I said nothing even remotely implying such an attitude but that doesn't stop the lies does it?
Of course you didn't just blame the victim twice in a row, and it would be a maliciously accurate slander to point out that that's exactly what you did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 12-05-2014 5:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 12-06-2014 12:18 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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