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Author Topic:   YOUR POSITION ON CREATION AND/OR EVOLUTION!
Jet
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 10 (31922)
02-11-2003 1:50 AM


For the purpose of educating forum members interested in a more indepth understanding of the positions and beliefs of individual members, it is my hope that all who are interested will state their positions here. This may better enable members to engage each other in discussion, having a better understanding of each others views.
I will begin by stating that I am an OEC. I accept a literal six day re-creation, based upon my studies numerous writings, chiefly those within, but not limited to, the Holy Scriptures, which includes, but is not limited to, the book of Genesis. I accept the possibility of the universe being billions of years in age, while also acknowledging the possibility, however remote, of the universe being only several thousand years old. I arrive at my conclusions of the universe being extremely old solely on the authority of the Holy Writ.
While science can be a helpful tool in understanding the world in which we live, it is of little use when attempting to uncover the fulness of the mysteries of the ancient past. For example, using the presently accepted speed of light as a barometer for determining either distance or time is, given the ongoing debate of whether light is moving at a slower rate now than it did in the past, an unprofitable source of reference.
If light is constant, (something science cannot yet fully agree upon), then a young universe seems an impossibility. If light is indeed traveling at a slower rate of speed today than in the distant past, then all possibilities as to the age of the universe remain open for discussion, considering all the unkowns that must be taken into account. If light was instantaneous at the moment of creation, whether by Intelligent Design or by a Big Bang, then even the YEC position concerning the age of the earth is a viable one. Consider the following while keeping an open mind as to the infinite possibilities that may be involved when considering the beginning of all things known and unknown.
http://perso.club-internet.fr/molaire1/e_plan.html
MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News
http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Turner/Turner2.html
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Einstein's theory 'may be wrong'
http://www.arn.org/docs2/news/lawsofphysicschange82901.htm
The few examples above will, if nothing else, cause us to question the validity of so-called constants. Science can be a wonderful tool, as long as those who enlist its' services understand its' limitations due to the flawed nature of those who must rely on it for answers.
Shalom
Jet
------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?
Prof. George Greenstein

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (49797)
08-10-2003 8:00 PM


?
I do not believe that there is such a thing as an "Old Earth Creationist"... How is that title logical? The scripture clearly says the Geneology and ages of the people in the Bible, Adding shows you the age of the Earth. That in my mind is the reason God gave us the geneology in the Bible, to tell us the age of the Earth!
How do you call yourself a Creationist then, if a Creationist relies on the WORD OF GOD and Science. Just an annoyance that is bothering me greatly and lacks logic.
I am a Creationist (a "C" I guess) I believe that the Universe is young, around 6000 years old. I believe in Creation obviously, 6 days.
This is what I think about Evolution/Evolutiists:
Evolution was put into the school systems... Scopes Trial. A religion that spreads faster and faster, 90 percent at least of the people on this earth including Christians believe the lies.
Evolution is a religion based upon no true factual evidences. Evolution cannot be observed or studied. With that people still call it a Science... Science is observable and evolution is clearly not and never has been. It's a wrong theory. For the Beginning... (which leads to evolution, seems the Big Bang is a popular one, This is ALL taught in school some way or another.) (Angular Momentum: If matter/an object flys off a spinning object, that matter or object spins at the same rotation as the spinning object that that object flew off of.) (layman's terms) I have brung up the Law of Angular Momentum on various other sites and this is what I get: That law only works when no other forces are working upon the matter. What forces would be acting upon the matter in the Big Bang when the only "THING" in the Universe at the time was that matter? Were the forces such as gravity or inertia just there? If that's the case then obviously the "Big Bang" wasn't the Beginning. From the Big Bang's standpoint that is the beginning. Also If man evolved wouldn't many missing links have been found by now with years of work on trying to find fossils and bones being done? I quote from Darwin: "As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth? The number of intermediate links between all living and extinct species must have been inconceivably great!" Maybe the countless transitional forms dissapeared magically... I'm not waiting for them to be dug up and you shouldn't either, because the missing links don't exist. Obviously you are all brainwashed into thinking the Universe started from nothing, and man evolved over time. That's what years of Science classes and courses will do to you. I'm glad I heard the truth before being suckered in as well, but now all of you have heard so I guess when Judgement comes you won't have any excuses for not believing... I've done my part... Think of it this way, by your standpoint we are all going to just stay in the earth and just become dead corpses, but my standpoint puts you to eternal damnation and me and the rest of the "Saved" into eternal bliss. Either way you lose, but I guess if you think of dirt rather then eternal fire and darkness it might just sound a little better.
*Sorry if this seems harsh. Had to say what I believe and I don't have an excuse or any regrets for it.
------------------
The Greatest single cause of Atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips but walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable. -DC Talk

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 08-10-2003 8:14 PM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2003 2:32 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 3 of 10 (49800)
08-10-2003 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by joshua221
08-10-2003 8:00 PM


Re: ?
Jet's posting privileges are suspended. He can be reinstated simply by sending email to Admin containing assurances that he will follow the Forum Guidelines in the future.
------------------
--Percy
EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by joshua221, posted 08-10-2003 8:00 PM joshua221 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dr Jack, posted 08-11-2003 6:04 AM Admin has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 10 (49853)
08-11-2003 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by joshua221
08-10-2003 8:00 PM


Re: ?
Evolution cannot be observed or studied.
Whether or not it can be observed is a question for a while thread (although the answer is simple - it can and has been observed). But did you really mean to say it can't be studied? After all, what do you think evolutionary biologists do all day to earn their paychecks? What are they studying if not evolution?
(Angular Momentum: If matter/an object flys off a spinning object, that matter or object spins at the same rotation as the spinning object that that object flew off of.)
Huh? That's not true. When a body leaves a spinning object, it takes off in a straight line. Like, when you pitch a baseball off a spinning merry-go-round it heads in a straight line. It doesn't orbit you. That's why there's such a thing as centrifcal force.
Or are you talking about something else?
Also If man evolved wouldn't many missing links have been found by now with years of work on trying to find fossils and bones being done?
There aren't always missing links. We've found plenty of them, but to you there would always be a "missing link" between that and something else.
But think about it. There's no missing link between you and your dad. But you're different from your dad. At some point there's discreet organisms with no links between them.
As by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?
Of course, since Darwin was writing in the 1800's, people hadn't found all the transitional forms we have, today. There's as many transitional forms as you would expect. Some of them are even alive today - the hippopotamus could be a transitional form between a land-dwelling and aquatic mammal. It clearly has the features of both.
Obviously you are all brainwashed into thinking the Universe started from nothing, and man evolved over time. That's what years of Science classes and courses will do to you.
Well, clearly your defense strategy has been to avoid learning anything about science at all. Effective, in terms of preserving your faith - but clearly idiotic in terms of actually learning the way the universe works.
Think of it this way, by your standpoint we are all going to just stay in the earth and just become dead corpses, but my standpoint puts you to eternal damnation and me and the rest of the "Saved" into eternal bliss. Either way you lose, but I guess if you think of dirt rather then eternal fire and darkness it might just sound a little better.
Well, that's hardly charitable. Is this how the Bible tells you to witness for your faith? Is this an example of the great love Jesus would have you have for your fellow man? You're not very Christian, are you?
You've raised a lot of points, which I think people would be glad to argue, except you make a common mistake and shoot off too many of them at once. That prevents a real in-depth discussion of any of them. Why don't you pick one bit of your argument - like, the angular momentum argument - and we can talk about it in another thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by joshua221, posted 08-10-2003 8:00 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 5 of 10 (49886)
08-11-2003 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Admin
08-10-2003 8:14 PM


Re: ?
Jet's posting privileges are suspended. He can be reinstated simply by sending email to Admin containing assurances that he will follow the Forum Guidelines in the future.
Um, what guideline has he violated? His post looked fine to me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 08-10-2003 8:14 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by zephyr, posted 08-11-2003 10:43 AM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 10 by Admin, posted 08-11-2003 11:15 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 6 of 10 (49924)
08-11-2003 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Jack
08-11-2003 6:04 AM


Re: ?
quote:
Um, what guideline has he violated? His post looked fine to me?
Wasn't just that post. That was 6 months ago anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Jack, posted 08-11-2003 6:04 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Dr Jack, posted 08-11-2003 10:45 AM zephyr has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 7 of 10 (49927)
08-11-2003 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by zephyr
08-11-2003 10:43 AM


Re: ?
Wasn't just that post. That was 6 months ago anyway.
Oh, OK. I assumed since it was in this thread it refered to that post. And Admin's post was made yesterday.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by zephyr, posted 08-11-2003 10:43 AM zephyr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by zephyr, posted 08-11-2003 10:48 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 8 of 10 (49928)
08-11-2003 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dr Jack
08-11-2003 10:45 AM


Re: ?
I'd assume that was for the benefit of prophecyexclaimed, who dredged up this old thread without realizing that 1) it was so old and 2) Jet was suspended long ago.
That's the kind of mistake you make when you charge into a situation like this without the benefit of things like information, experience, and objectivity....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Dr Jack, posted 08-11-2003 10:45 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 08-11-2003 10:59 AM zephyr has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 9 of 10 (49931)
08-11-2003 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by zephyr
08-11-2003 10:48 AM


Re: ?
All has become clear, thankyou Zephyr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by zephyr, posted 08-11-2003 10:48 AM zephyr has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 10 of 10 (49934)
08-11-2003 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Jack
08-11-2003 6:04 AM


Re: ?
Mr Jack writes:
Um, what guideline has he violated? His post looked fine to me?
Jet wasn't suspended for that post. For your edification and enjoyment, please see this Jet Retrospective.
Jet may possibly have been able to get away with all his colorful behavior, because it was certainly a lot of fun, had he ever decided to actually discuss anything.
------------------
--Percy
EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Jack, posted 08-11-2003 6:04 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
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