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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 451 (137735)
08-28-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by bob_gray
08-28-2004 1:43 PM


Re: Where are the Christians?????
quote:
Admins, it is requested that any posts of the type "You're not a real Christian" be sanctioned.
I found this line insulting, I'm sure you understand why.

"Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
Ephesians 5:14

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by bob_gray, posted 08-28-2004 1:43 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 32 of 451 (137750)
08-28-2004 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by bob_gray
08-28-2004 1:43 PM


On prayer and intercession
Of course they also pray to Mary and the saints but I think that god forgives these "sins".
Do they pray to Mary and the other Saints, or do they ask Mary and the other Saints to interceed for them? TTBOMK, they do not ask either Mary or a Saint to forgive sins, but rather simply to Pray for them.
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death, amen."
IIRC, that is based on the quotes from Luke 1:28 and 42.
28
..."Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."
42
..."Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by bob_gray, posted 08-28-2004 1:43 PM bob_gray has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Phat, posted 08-29-2004 4:59 PM jar has not replied
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 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 10-29-2004 10:00 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 451 (137891)
08-29-2004 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
08-28-2004 10:05 PM


Christian by Definition
Its Sunday and I am home for a few hours before I have to leave, so I have some time to post.
jar writes:
Christians, if you are out there, how about stepping up and explaining what your view of Christianity is?
My first impulse in a post such as this is to refer the others to a variety of websites that explain the belief system which I have adopted. You are right that there is a difference between Catholic and Protestant...but it is a small difference theologically compared to Jehovahs Witness and either of the other two. There are lines to be drawn...theological lines if you will. Intellectually, that is.
In my last post, I brought up "personal concept." I was not challenging you, jar, but I was explaining that a personal concept is like shooting from the hip without referring to books and explanations, so I did have to think about it for a moment. In a nutshell, here it is:
All of my life, I was taught who and what God was. I also read a bit about what other people around the world had to say. My first personal experience with God came when my Uncle died. I had promised my Uncle that I would be there for his family and that he could stop worrying. While in the Hospital, there was a certain odor connected with his room....and the funny thing was, a couple of days later I was at work and it was about 753pm, and all of a sudden I smelt that odor and I sensed someone around me that was not there. I shrugged the experience off, but the next day I found that my Uncle had died, and that he had died at just before 800pm! Coincidence? Gods presence? I don't know for sure....The next incident began when I got saved. I KNOW that life changed for me that day. I felt the presence again, but this time it stayed with me. When I prayed, I felt warmth and comfort. I began to believe that God was truly close to me. All that was taught about Jesus being the only way to God, salvation through grace vs working towards holiness..all of these things were taught and some of them made sense to my inner unctions and some of them did not. I DID know that the Holy Spirit was within me and not just around me...I felt a communion with God! This occurred despite the church rather than because of the church. I saw a lot of problems in the church...human nature never changes. Lately, I have been challenged by the atheist intellectuals at Internet Infidels and to a lesser extent at this website, but I will not be swayed by the mere intellectual arguments which often do make good sense. The reason is because I believe that there actually is a type of a spiritual war going on among humanity and God and the evil, and I am convinced that what looks like the truth may not be the truth...it has to eel right. I can throw away all the religion in the world if I hang on to that inner unction that Knows that God is real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-28-2004 10:05 PM jar has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 34 of 451 (137939)
08-29-2004 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
08-26-2004 10:02 AM


Re: Where are the Christians?????
Well, so far it looks like there are few Christians here. I had thought, based on some other posts that there were more than two Christians on this board, but perhaps I was wrong.
Christians, if you are out there, how about stepping up and explaining what your view of Christianity is?
Sorry Jar, I've gotten so busy I rarely have time to write a post.
My ways of thinking about things are constantly changing, but here's my current Christian paradigm philosphy belief thingy:
Christianity is the way of life and way of thinking beginning with firm belief in one eternal, just, righteous, loving, sovereign, truthful, immutable, immanent, and transcendent God in essence who is the creator of all reality, the physical universe which is sort of embedded in a spiritual universe, and this followed by the belief that He is intimately involved in and caring about everything that goes on in all reality and has revealed himself to us through personal & written revelation, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ.
He created this time-oriented and free-will based reality knowing the spiritual warfare that would play out in order to demonstrate the fullness of his character to his creations including his great personal love for us in his son, Jesus Christ, who was fully God and fully man in one person.
Living the Christian life entails: humbling one's self to recognize one's own mortality, obscurity, lowliness, unmerited value, and need for forgiveness thereby accepting and trusting in God's plan including the offer of salvation through belief in Christ; loving God, loving your neighbor, and loving truth; doing all things with God's purposes in mind; daily learning what those purposes are by studying scripture, praying, and continually meditating on Him; and generally having a relaxed, flexible, and un-judgemental attitude enjoying the freedom and blessings provided by grace. It means having your spirit and God's Spirit co-mingling to produce good in your thoughts, words, and actions.
Hope I expressed that clearly enough...
This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 08-29-2004 08:13 PM
This message has been edited by Hangdawg13, 08-29-2004 08:15 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 08-26-2004 10:02 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 451 (138024)
08-30-2004 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Hangdawg13
08-29-2004 9:12 PM


Christianity Unplugged
A few more quick beliefs:
Christianity is not about trying to be Holy. Christianity is not about trying to be good or do good. Christianity is about Trust. Trusting the relationship formed with Jesus. Trusting that His Spirit will transform your life.
The core of sin is our making ourselves the center of life, rather than accepting the holy God as the center. Lack of trust, self-love, pride, these are three ways in which Christians have expressed the real meaning of sin. But what sin does is to make the struggle with evil meaningless. When we refuse to hold our freedom in trust and reverence for God's will, there is nothing which can make the risk of life worth the pain of it.
... D. D. Williams, Interpreting Theology 1918-1952
If Christians are ever to be united, they must be united in Christ, their living head and the source of their spiritual life.
... Philip Schaff
A Christian is not a Christian by education. A Christian is not a Christian by dedication..(entirely). A Christian is a Christian by IMPARTATION. The early Church was full of the true power of impartation. This rapidly diffused into fewer and more anonymous people. The Orthodox and the Catholic split was later, and by that time the impartation and personal relationshhip with the Spirit of God had been largely replaced by religion and trappings of adornment and position within the church. This is why the church was in some ways corrupt at that time.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-22-2004 04:33 AM

This message is a reply to:
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bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 36 of 451 (138127)
08-30-2004 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by joshua221
08-28-2004 8:59 PM


Re: Where are the Christians?????
I should have been more clear. I was using the word "argument" in this context:
quote:
From: Argument Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason:
Not in the sense of a discussion in which disagreement is expressed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by joshua221, posted 08-28-2004 8:59 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 37 of 451 (138129)
08-30-2004 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by joshua221
08-28-2004 9:02 PM


Re: Where are the Christians?????
quote:
Actually Catholics believe that works/deeds/sacraments get you to heaven, believe me I just recieved Confirmation (the sacrament) a month or two ago.
Not having received confirmation recently I'll have to trust that you know what you are talking about. However, I was basing my understanding of Catholicism on the profession of faith said at mass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by joshua221, posted 08-28-2004 9:02 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 38 of 451 (138131)
08-30-2004 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
08-28-2004 10:05 PM


Re: On prayer and intercession
quote:
Do they pray to Mary and the other Saints, or do they ask Mary and the other Saints to interceed for them? TTBOMK, they do not ask either Mary or a Saint to forgive sins, but rather simply to Pray for them.
You are correct the Catholics ask Mary to pray for them, they do not believe that Mary has any power to forgive sins. The sin I was referring to was the sin of praying to Mary. Many protestant faiths see this as idolatry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-28-2004 10:05 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 08-30-2004 7:20 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 39 of 451 (138239)
08-30-2004 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by bob_gray
08-30-2004 1:58 PM


Are we talking intercession or "inner session"?
Idolatry is a touchy subject. Protestants often claim that Roman Catholicism is rife with idols, yet Protestants have been guilty of personality cults, prayer hankies, and annointing oils....all of which can also be idolatrous. Some even say that Jesus is an idol that interferes with God. I draw the line at Jesus, who I believe is a Divine manifestation of God and Mary, who is a blessed but very human woman. Others would disagree....alas...A Christian by definition may be aligned with Chapter II of the Westminister Confession:
CHAPTER II.
Of God, and of the Holy Trinity.
I. There is but one only living and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute, working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his won glory, most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him; and withal most just and terrible in his judgments; hating all sin; and who will by no means clear the guilty.
II. God hath all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone foundation of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom, are all things; and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth. In his sight all things are open and manifest; his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature; so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain. He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands. To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.
III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternall begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.
Note that Mary is not a 4th member of the Trinity, hence, is an intercessor at best. The Protestant refutation of Mary as intercessor is this scrip:
1 Tim 2:5-6=For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men-the testimony given in its proper time.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 08-30-2004 06:23 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 40 of 451 (151883)
10-22-2004 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Phat
08-30-2004 7:20 PM


Re: Are we talking intercession or "inner session"?
Catholics see salvation through the Church and the sacraments.
Protestants see salvation through the Word and through relationship with the Holy Spirit. Both are right, and Both have a piece of the puzzle. The Orthodox have some additional good points.
Jar, I was bored so I decided to resurrect this old post of yours.
Any comments from the Orange Hairy guy or the ubiquitous AdminJar?
Holy, Holy, Holy is our Lord! He loves each and every poster on this boooarrd.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 08-30-2004 7:20 PM Phat has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 41 of 451 (152270)
10-23-2004 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
08-25-2004 10:41 AM


Re: As I see Christianity
I will agree with this, and add:
That for me, to be with Christ, you should be in Christ,
That I try my best to use the Holy Spirit as a guide in my life,
That my walk with the Lord is constantly evolving one, I believe God is taking me on this journey, and is showing me a clear path and my purpose for him.
*edit* A suitable 1000th post
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 10-23-2004 11:35 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 42 of 451 (152420)
10-23-2004 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
08-25-2004 10:47 AM


Ticket to Heaven? Stairway or shuttle?
Jar writes:
I would agree that to be a Christian by definition you must accept Jesus Christ. But I also believe that Christianity is more than just Christians.
As I said in other posts, IMHO, Christ's Death and Resurection is a promise to ALL people, even Atheists and Agnoistics. It was the gift of salvations and a promise of life everlasting, freely given, from GOD to all mankind.
I agree that God can and does reach all people and that they will be judged by their heart. The acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Savior and only way in will then be presented to them. Nobody with a good humble heart would reject Jesus and say that they had their "own" beliefs once Jesus was shown to be God incarnate to them. Its not a matter of some proclaimong Jesus and others proclaiming Buddha, entering through different doors. There is one doorman, but He loves all people and has already sent His Spirit to draw them in. I guess that what I am saying is that I believe that there is ONE way to God, but that this ONE way has Himself drawn ALL people unto Himself. I disagree with those who say that Buddha , Vishnu, et al are different manifestations of the Creator. It is not a matter of religious philosophies...it is a matter of the heart and of the character of God manifested ONCE for ALL. Jesus will be Himself to the Southern Baptist as well as the Hindu. The Muslim will not get a free ticket through "his" hookup Mohammed....it will again be Jesus as the guy at the door. I agree with you, jar, in that ALL people will get a chance at that door.
===========================================
P.S. For the sake of argument, if I found Buddha at the door instead of Jesus, I believe that God would be testing my heart and I would accept the love of the Holy Spirit. It would REALLY be Jesus, though!
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 10-23-2004 06:14 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 451 (152446)
10-23-2004 9:17 PM


1. Christianity would not be in the vocabulary of humanity were it not for the OT prophets who prophesied that a christ/messiah would emerge. There were specific prophetic descriptions of what this person would be like what he would do and what would befall him. In due time Jesus, born in Bethlehem as prophesied, coming out Nazareth, sought out to be killed as an infant, born of a chaste young woman/virgin, born in a lowly place, riding into Jerusalem on an unbroken colt, to be rejected by his people, to suffer, having his side and hands pierced, having soldiers railing at him, parting his garments, to be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, the betrayer being burried in the potter's field, being burried in a borrowed tomb, etc, did emerge on the scene to fulfill the above predictions and much more. Thus the word term Christianity came to be known. This christ of Christianity had 12 very close desciples who followed him and who wrote and taught his doctrines quoting him often, his purpose for being born, his purpose for allowing himself to be crucified, how to be born from above spiritually, i.e. to become a child of God, i.e to become a christ-ian/christ-one proclaiming emphatically that he and he alone was the way to the father, Jehovah, god of the OT and the NT. He said any who attempted to get in any other way were to be considered thieves and robbers. His desciple Paul said "as many as were saved were added to the church daily," and "they were first called Christians at Antioch."
Jesus went on to instruct his desciples to go into all the world, beginning at Jerusalem and preach the specific gospel he had established, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Both Jesus and his desciples taught the following criteria for one to consider oneself to be his follower/desciple/Christian.
1. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
2. Believe Jesus's sacrificial shed blood "cleanses from all sin, and he arose from the grave for our redemption.
3. One must call upon God, receiving Christ Jesus as saviour and lord of one's life. Jesus, of course here is referring to his spirit, the Holy Spirit and he explained to Nicodemus that he must be born from above spiritually by receiving this Holy Spirit of Jesus into his being and body. See John chapter 3
So I go at answering this question for myself as a scientist would go at arriving at a given theory. I assemble all the data I can which is specifically applicable to the term/word to be considered or studied and base my conclusions on the research pertaining to that assembled data. Please note that I have not and imo, need not mention any denomination, sect, or faction or human organization in my answer to this question of what I believe a Christian is. I have, however, presented an answer which is absoulutely EXCLUSIVE, as was made very clear by both Jesus, the christ of Christianity and his apostles.
This, understandably does not set well with those of other persuasions, followers of other gods and unbelievers. Thus, as prophesied by Jesus himself, those who would truly become his followers SHALL SUFFER PERSECUTION and be generally misunderstood, hated, and despised by the world for their Christian witness and testimony of this exclusive gospel.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 451 (152526)
10-24-2004 11:24 AM


Kudos to all
So far this is turning out to be all that I could have wished, maybe even more.
Please keep the posts coming.
For those Christians on the board who have not yet posted, what is your definition of a Christian?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by mike the wiz, posted 10-24-2004 1:49 PM jar has not replied
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 45 of 451 (152535)
10-24-2004 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by jar
10-24-2004 11:24 AM


Re: Kudos to all
There's so much disagreement concerning the definition of a Christian.
For me - it's lost as to it's first meaning. As in - people will generalize too much concerning the term. I suppose Buz defined it pretty well.
Neverhteless, I usually say that it is;
A. Belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and saviour of us.
B. Follower of Christ's teachings.
That is how I would define one I suppose, but then there might be other things - baptism in the Holy Spirit etc.. But you wouldn't find that in the dictionary as obviously an objective source isn't going to say such a thing - or certainly a secularist would have the assumption that there is no Spirit. So it might become an irrelevancy concerning the definition used by most secularist people, - in that a secularist might define one as just a believer - yet a believer might say that the baptism is necessary - anyhow/where/whatsoever - I am so tired of the whole thing, and I am not baptised in the Holy SPirit as far as I know - so am I a christian? Depends on who's defining it. And so - let Christ decide if I am.
So - am I a Christian? I don't know - and don't care anymore.
All I want to know is if my name is written in the book of life - and you can put me in the category you want.
So "christian" is an often used/mis-used term. For example - one might say that Hitler was a christian but not mike. Ho hum - and who cares! It's not like a christian is a special person anyway - no category will save me - only Christ will - I am going to claim Messianic Jewdom - cos my ancestors might have been Jewish.

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Replies to this message:
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