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Author Topic:   New Book: Kerry ‘Unfit for Command’
MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 612 (133285)
08-12-2004 2:26 PM


I've been arguing this specific title in a number of my local city threads, so I guess I'll just bring my dirty laundry over here.
I find it pretty funny noticing the parallels between a topic like evo./creation with such a topic like Kerry's past. In that I mean I often notice a creationist attempt to fallaciously ask an evolutionist to prove a negative, which is an erroneous burden for anyone. I find the same situation occurring here with this group of Smear Boaters, because it's really not just the account of Kerry that they are going against, but they are also going against 10 eyewitnesses that were actually on his boat, as well as documented Navy records. Of course they don't want to expound further than just Kerry's word alone, but the real burden is upon them to somehow bring positive, verifiable evidence to support their assertions. Given the fact that there were NO Smear Boat men on Kerry's boat, and given the fact that what they are stating is mere opinion, their assertions alone should be held suspect.
But what's worse for this group of Smear Boaters is their questionable motives AND credibility. A good article was written back in May here:
Slave labor in the statehouse | Salon.com
Note the parts about Hoffmann, the commander of Kerry being somewhat obsessed with body count figures. Nice guy, huh? Funny how he is the founder of this group against Kerry. What I don’t seem to understand is, if he was so against Kerry, why then, according to the Navy Archives, did he give high praise for Kerry?:
quote:
Yet Hoffmann and Kerry had few direct dealings in Vietnam. A Los Angeles Times examination of Navy archives found that Hoffmann praised Kerry's performance in cabled messages after several river skirmishes. And while the Purple Heart account remains murky, its award was routine. Navy records show Swift boat crews were frequently raked with slight wounds of uncertain origin injuries that often earned decorations.
"I don't know what conclusions you can draw about someone's ability to lead from their combat experience, but John's service was commendable," said James J. Galvin, a former Swift boat officer who, like Kerry, was honored for three minor wounds and left the coastal combat zone early. "He played by the same rules we all did."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-kerryviet...
Oh but wait, what were some of those cables that Hoffmann stated praise about Kerry? Well golly gee, here they are:
Kerry's charge won him a Silver Star, personally awarded by Zumwalt in a Saigon ceremony. Three days after the skirmish, Kerry and his crew also received a cable from Sealords task force headquarters.
quote:
"The tactic of attack and assault thoroughly surprised the enemy in his spider-holes and proved to be immensely effective in rousting him into the open," the message read.
The cable was from Hoffmann. Four times in February and March, he cabled Kerry and his crew, praising them and other Swift boats after skirmishes. Hoffmann acknowledged the cables, saying Kerry showed "some pretty sharp thinking. He had courage. But he was loose. He went out on his own too much."
Hoffmann and several former Swift officers said Kerry's boat sometimes veered off during missions without explanation a criticism Kerry and his crewmen dismissed.
There are no official rebukes in Navy archives or Kerry's available personnel file. Hoffmann's criticism is also at odds with the glowing evaluations of Kerry in his official Navy record. Only Hibbard's was less than effusive.
The same day as the Silver Star beaching, Hoffmann sent Kerry's boat another cable commending the crew's capture of "5 VC males" in a "daring PCF operation [that] will provide an invaluable source of intelligence."
By golly, a body-count nutbag like Hoffmann praising Kerry? Who woulda thunk it?
And let’s keep in mind that 9 out of 10 crewmates of Kerry support his leadership throughout his Vietnam tour. The lone wolf who doesn’t (Gardener), strangely enough seems to have some kinda political motivation against Kerry in the first place:
Page not found | TIME
Boy oh boy, who woulda thunk that?
But wait, we’ve got more than just Hoffmann of that smearing crew to examine in their flip-flopping views on Kerry. Let’s take a look at yet another piece, this one from Fox exosing that group:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200405050004
quote:
FOX exposed anti-Kerry vets' flip-flopping
As part of ongoing efforts to undermine Senator John Kerry's war record, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group founded to discredit Kerry's record during and after his service in Vietnam, held its first news conference on May 4. Also on that day, Media Matters for America released a report on the group's founder, John O'Neill -- also one of Kerry's strongest critics; the report documents O'Neill's participation in Republican efforts to smear Kerry dating back to the Nixon administration. The scrutiny that cable networks directed toward Kerry's critics throughout the day varied significantly; FOX News Channel provided in-depth coverage, including revealing that some of Kerry's present-day critics have, in the past, actually praised Kerry for his Vietnam service.
In many of the May 4 cable news reports, the partisan political backgrounds of the Swift Boat Vets were mentioned. CNN's afternoon news program, Live From..., described the group only as "Vietnam vets who formed a special purpose political action committee" and did not note O'Neill's or any other member's political affiliation. Later in the day, CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley reported on Inside Politics: "[T]he Kerry campaign points out there are Republicans here." Crowley also noted that the group's spokeswoman "is a Texas Republican who has contributed to the Bush campaign." On CNN's Crossfire, co-host James Carville also pointed to the Swift Boat Vets' Republican ties, as reported in Salon.com by Joe Conason in a May 4 article.
On MSNBC's Scarborough Country, host Joe Scarborough mentioned criticism of O'Neill's "dirty tricks" for the Nixon administration and asked if O'Neill was doing it again for the Bush campaign. MSNBC's Lester Holt Live showed a clip of Michael Meehan, Kerry presidential campaign adviser, criticizing the Swift Boat Veterans for their partisan attacks on Kerry and noting that a number of Kerry's crewmembers in Vietnam have praised his service. An afternoon report on MSNBC's daily news show, MSNBC Live, noted only that the Kerry campaign is "of course putting up veterans who disagree" with Kerry's critics. The broadcast omitted any information on individual members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, whom the program identified as "a group of former Navy swift boat commanders and personnel many of whom served with Kerry in Vietnam."
FOX News Channel pushed harder on the credibility of some of the group's members. On several shows throughout the afternoon and evening, including Special Report with Brit Hume, FOX News Channel chief political correspondent Carl Cameron provided substantial background on some key Kerry critics. Cameron reported that the veterans held a news conference "essentially to trash [Kerry]" and that much of their criticism "dramatically conflicts with the public record." Cameron stated, "Senator Kerry has released most of his military records and for the most part, they are a glowing detail of his military service." Not only does their criticism conflict with what The New York Times described in an April 22 article as Kerry's "uniformly positive" evaluations included in his military records, but, as Cameron also reported, their criticism is inconsistent with statements previously made by many of the Swift Boat Vets themselves. Cameron reported that in 1968, Kerry critic Grant W. Hibbard,[1] a lieutenant commander in Vietnam during Kerry's tour:
... described Kerry in various favorable ways, as quote, "One of the top few in his willingness to seek and accept responsibility." Captain George Elliot, who served in Vietnam at the same time Kerry did, condemns Kerry now for touting his service in a war that Kerry later protested. ... But in '96, Elliot and other critics of today, praised him for going after the enemy.

Wait a tick — is that the same Grant Hibbard in that darned Smear Boat For Truth commercial? Nahh, couldn’t be!
quote:
Beyond pointing out the inconsistent statements by some of Kerry's critics, Cameron also reported that Democrats say that "many of them ... have become Republicans ... who have supported the Bush campaigns in Texas, have been close friends of the Bush family both in politics and business." Cameron stated on Special Report with Brit Hume, "The GOP says it's not involved with the veterans criticizing Kerry, but many of them are Republicans who have contributed to and backed various Bush campaigns and causes over the decades."
What what what?!?!? Veterans smearing Kerry having historical ties to the Bush family and GOP? No way, brother! It just ain’t true, is it?
quote:
On FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes, co-host Alan Colmes challenged the credibility of the Swift Boat Vets. Colmes noted that Swift Boat Vets leader O'Neill did not serve in Vietnam with Kerry; rather, as O'Neill told Colmes, "I actually took his boat over, but about two months after he [Kerry] left." Colmes also draws attention to the flip-flopping nature of the comments made about Kerry by several group members. Colmes questioned O'Neill who appeared on the show:
Wait a gosh darn minute! The smear group’s leader wasn’t even on the boat with Kerry? Hmmmm
quote:
Here is what Grant Hubbard [sic], who's now part of your group, here's what he had to say back then about John Kerry. And he signed -- let's put it up on the screen -- a report on Kerry. He said on initiative, one of the top few. Cooperation, one of the top few. Personal behavior, one of the top few. Why would he say that then and now be supporting you now?
Oh Hibbard, you’re such a jokester!
quote:
Colmes further probed:
Let me show you the report of George Elliott, who also graded John Kerry in Vietnam. Here's what was said. Here's what he said. "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, Lieutenant Junior Grade Kerry was unsurpassed. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach." That's a report of officer fitness from 1969 by George Elliott, who also graded Kerry. How do you account for that? Do you want to claim that everybody now is saying what you're saying? It's clearly not true.
That silly Elliott guy, what was he thinking back then? Surely he just didn’t mean all those nice praises for Kerry, did he?
Well by golly, we got ourselves a little flip-floppin’ goin’ on har, and it ain’t even Kerry this time!
Let’s examine another guy from that smear group, the doctor Lewis
Letson who supposedly examined Kerry’s 1st purple heart:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-swift...
Funny how he wasn’t even the doctor that signed off on Kerry’s exam. Nice credibility problem he’s developed.
But let’s grant this bloke, for argument sake, that he did examine Kerry, and that it was merely a scratch. Why is he after Kerry for this? Who granted Kerry the award? Did Kerry grant himself the award?
Umm, uhh, uhh, was it the Navy?
You betcha! so why aren't these smear boat artists going after the navy for giving Kerry the award?
(Oh, sidenote, here’s Kerry’s request to go to Vietnam:
http://www.johnkerry.com/...e/Request_For_Swiftboat_Duty.pdf
Any conservative wish to contrast that with Bush’s request NOT to go to Vietnam?)
Funny how his fitness reports from the Navy tend to contradict this group’s smear attempts. You can read those fitness reports here:
http://www.intel-dump.com/archives/archive_2004_04_21.shtml
Let’s see, who else? Oh yeah, Capt. Adrian Lonsdale, another Smear Boat winner had this to say about Kerry in November 4, 1996 issue of South Coast Today:
quote:
"Adrian Lonsdale remembers a young John F. Kerry as a naval officer who was a good debater, even back in his days in Vietnam. "'He and I and others used to have long discussions at the officers club,' said Mr. Lonsdale of Mattapoisett, a former Coast Guard officer who commanded a division in which the Massachusetts senator was attached back in 1969. 'They were very spirited discussions about the war and the politics back home.' "'He was opposed to the war but it didn't make any difference in his performance,' said the former owner and still instructor at Northeast Maritime Institute in New Bedford. 'He was a very good officer.' "Capt. Lonsdale was among a group of former Vietnam veterans the Massachusetts Democrat brought to the Charlestown navy yard recently to rebut a Boston Globe column that raised questions about Sen. Kerry's Vietnam service, particularly the Silver Star he won. "Mr. Lonsdale was in charge of a two-division flotilla opereating [sic] out of Phu Quoc, a big island near the Cambodian border. One division was made up of Swift boats, fast 50-foot offshore boats, while the other was composed of 82-foot Coast Guard patrol boats."
Fastly error: unknown domain www.s-t.com
Kerry’s fishy circumstances for earning his medals (note it is a nonpartisan website):
John Kerry's Service Record | Snopes.com
But most importantly, this examination into Kerry’s war record really begs the comparison to your war hero Bush and his military record (or lack thereof). By all means, please attempt to defend his unaccountability for at least 3 months.
By the way, McCain isn’t too happy with this BS group either, nor is he happy with the White House for failing to condemn them. Probably feels a little familiar to him, doesn’t it?:
Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines
Here's a few more websites to examine:
1. A good summary of the majority of charges by the Swifties against Kerry, and a long refutation of each of those charges:
StackPath
2. The latest from factcheck.org (non-partisan, in case you're wondering) on Elliott's flip-flopping problems and affidavits:
Page not found - FactCheck.org
3. Drudge continuing to push the false report on Kranish with Kerry/Edwards' campaign:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408100001
4. The latest on Bob Perry, one of the 3 big Texas GOP donors (and good ol' buddy of Bush and Rove) for this Smear Boat Group:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-perry...
5. Co-author of the book, Jerome Corsi being caught in racial slurs and bigotry:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010
(To be fair, Corsi has since apologized for his remarks since then)
6. Ted Sampley, co-founder of the Smear Boat group, being exposed on MSNBC for his smearing and distortion of McCain's record:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408110010
7. Jim Rassman's criticism in the Wall Street Journal on this group. He was the guy Kerry saved and received a Bronze Star. He's also a registered Republican, BTW:
Get The Wall Street Journal’s Opinion columnists, editorials, op-eds, letters to the editor, and book and arts reviews.
8. A well-written and documented in-depth analysis on one of the Smear Boat's chapters on Kerry's first purple heart:
Welcome fearofclowns.com - BlueHost.com
Welp, that's about all. Sorry this was so long.
{Shortened display form of 3 URL's, to restore page width to normal - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 08-12-2004 03:39 PM

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2328 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 17 of 612 (133293)
08-12-2004 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by MisterOpus1
08-12-2004 2:26 PM


Not too long at all MrO. Thank you for the work that went into this, saved me a lot of typing time

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

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nator
Member (Idle past 2195 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 18 of 612 (133322)
08-12-2004 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by paisano
08-12-2004 12:52 PM


Well, Bush was suspended for not showing up for a physical to maintain his status as a pilot.
I wonder if this was the time when he was doing cocaine, so he didn't want to take the drug test?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-12-2004 03:23 PM

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paisano
Member (Idle past 6448 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 19 of 612 (133329)
08-12-2004 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by nator
08-12-2004 4:22 PM


What's your source for this ? Your use of the term "suspended" raises questions. Suspended from flight status ?
There's nothing here. Bush was trained on the F-102, which toward the end of his term of service, was obsolete and being phased out. The ANG was being downsized as a whole, and likely wasn't interested in the expense of retraining Bush (and other F-102 pilots) on other aircraft types. So he served out his time as a ground officer.
Qualifying in a new fighter type isn't like picking between a Chevy and a Ford at the rental car counter. Months of retraining are required.

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 20 of 612 (133331)
08-12-2004 5:01 PM


A Kerry topic, not a Bush topic
The very much anti-Bush minnemooseus has asked me to encourage you all to here confine the discussion to the Kerry record.
The Bush record belongs in another topic.
Adminnemooseus

Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
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MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 612 (133332)
08-12-2004 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by paisano
08-12-2004 4:57 PM


quote:
What's your source for this ? Your use of the term "suspended" raises questions. Suspended from flight status ?
Umm, yeah:

{Rescaled graphic to "100%", to restore page width to normal - Adminnemooseus}
Full size version available at http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif
quote:
"Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination."
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 08-12-2004 04:19 PM

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MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 612 (133333)
08-12-2004 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Adminnemooseus
08-12-2004 5:01 PM


Re: A Kerry topic, not a Bush topic
My apologies Adminnemooseus. Just had to answer that one, but will remain on topic from here on out.

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JustinC
Member (Idle past 4869 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 23 of 612 (133349)
08-12-2004 5:58 PM


Wasn't that also the first medical examination where they had mandatory drug testing? I've heard this before, but I can't find any source to substantiate it.

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MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 612 (133353)
08-12-2004 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by JustinC
08-12-2004 5:58 PM


quote:
Wasn't that also the first medical examination where they had mandatory drug testing? I've heard this before, but I can't find any source to substantiate it.
Yes, here's an excerpt from a Salon.com article that describes the '72 Air Force Regulation:
quote:
Which is where Air Force Regulation 160-23, also known as the Medical Service Drug Abuse Testing Program, comes in. The new drug-testing effort was officially launched by the Air Force on April 21, 1972, following a Jan. 11, 1972, directive issued by the Department of Defense. That initiative, in response to increased drug use among soldiers in Vietnam, instructed the military branches to "establish the requirement for a systematic drug abuse testing program of all military personnel on active duty, effective 1 July 1972."
It's true that in 1972 Bush was not on "active" duty: His Texas Guard unit was never mobilized. But according to Maj. Jeff Washburn, the chief of the National Guard's substance abuse program, a random drug-testing program was born out of that regulation and administered to guardsmen such as Bush. The random tests were unrelated to the scheduled annual physical exams, such as the one that Bush failed to take in 1972, a failure that resulted in his grounding.
The 1972 drug-testing program took months, and in some cases years, to implement at Guard units across the country. And the percentage of guardsmen tested then was much lower than today's 40 percent rate. But as of April 1972, Air National guardsmen knew random drug testing was going to be implemented.
During the 2000 campaign, when Bush's spokesman was asked about the possibility of Bush facing a drug test back in 1972, the spokesman told the Times of London that Bush "was not aware of any [military] changes that required a drug test." Still, at the time when Bush, perhaps for the first time in his life, faced the prospect of a random drug test, his military records show he virtually disappeared, failing for at least one year to report for Guard duty. White House officials insist that if Bush missed any weekend Guard drills in 1972, he made up for them during the summer of 1973. If this is true, he would have been vulnerable to random drug tests during his makeup days. But again, Bush's own discharge papers fail to conclusively back up his claim that he performed Guard service in 1973. [This last sentence is no longer quite true, the gap is now measured in months.—ajl]
Bitter pills | Salon.com
HTH,
Opus

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MisterOpus1
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 612 (133355)
08-12-2004 6:23 PM


Stearing back to topic (well, sort of), if individuals like the Swift Boaters for Truth want to question things like Kerry saving the life of a registered Republican, I kinda wonder if they'll question his life-saving action of this GOP Senator:
Just a moment...
Hehe.

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 26 of 612 (133374)
08-12-2004 7:26 PM


Its more than just the boat incident, whose side was John Kerry actually on, lying to the Senate, picture of Kerry with the Communists leaders in their Saigon War museum, likely the book will continue to be a best seller, the people want to know, if John Kerry is fit for command, the reason the Vets have it in for Kerry is his lying about all the abuses he never saw personally, with a straight face before the Senate, that they (Vet's) knew he never saw personally, like what the heck was he doing testifying before the Senate, it was not like he actually saw any abuses, and the abuses these Vets recieved when returning to America, while John Kerry being honored by the Communist in Saigon, etc...
File Not Found
This message has been edited by whatever, 08-12-2004 06:27 PM

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2328 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 27 of 612 (133375)
08-12-2004 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by johnfolton
08-12-2004 7:26 PM


You haven't documented any "boat incident" and which of these vets that "know" what Kerry did and did not see actually served with him?

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5617 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 28 of 612 (133400)
08-12-2004 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Asgara
08-12-2004 7:31 PM


JOHN O'NEILL Interviewed by CBN
Asgara, I found John O'Neil views documented on line in an interview about what really happened in respect to the boat incident, John says its not about Kerry being a democrat, but about Kerry's lies about his record, etc...
CBN.com - The Christian Broadcasting Network
INTERVIEW
Unfit For Command: Vietnam Vet Recalls Serving with John Kerry
August 12, 2004
CBN.com — The inflammatory John Kerry book, "Unfit for Command," by Swift Boat vet John O'Neill, is racing up the best-seller charts. Kerry supporters are accusing O'Neill and other Swift Boat veterans of being politically motivated. But the vets say John Kerry's lies about his record have driven them to act. Pat Robertson recently spoke with the controversial author about why he feels Kerry is unfit to be elected the future president of the United States.
PAT ROBERTSON: John, I want to ask you something about a picture that is hung in a museum in Saigon depicting foreign activists who contributed to the Communist victory over America. Is Kerry's picture in that exhibit?
JOHN O'NEILL: Amazingly, Pat, he was no hero in our unit. But he was a big hero to the North Vietnamese in their war museum in Saigon, now Ho Chi Minh City. They have a hall - it is like a Cooperstown [Cooperstown, New York - site of the National Baseball Hall of Fame] of bad guys. They have el Fatah and Fidel Castro, Mao Tse Tung, and right in the middle of it is a shrine to John Kerry. A guy from our unit discovered that when he was in Saigon on Memorial Day. Copies of those pictures can be obtained right in the book "Unfit for Command."
ROBERTSON: The American people don't seem to know that. What, is there blindness now?
O'NEILL: It appears to me that there is such a mass rush among the major media to try to elect John Kerry as president of the United States, that they no longer care about the truth. To us, we have people of all different kinds in our organization, and most of the people that served with John Kerry were not Republicans or Democrats. But we care a lot about the truth, because it is our unit and it's the life story of the people who lived and died with us. We know that he lied about that unit. He exaggerated wildly his own short experience in Vietnam.
ROBERTSON: There is a man named (Jim) Rassman who wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal a couple of days ago, and he apparently was pulled out of the river by Kerry. Kerry got a Bronze Star for this action. He said there was fire coming from both sides of the river, that Kerry had been wounded, and an explosion blew up the boat, and Rassman went in the water. He said all of the boats left except Kerry's, and Kerry stayed to pick him up. What is your take on that story?
O'NEILL: It's turned the world turned upside down. What actually happened on that morning, March 13th, according to the officers of every other boat in the incident and many of the crewmen, is that the number three boat, the boat that Kerry was not on, was blown out of the water by a large mine. All of the boats closed on the number three boat, as we always would. We would stand and fight to the end. There was one exception to that. John Kerry fled the scene. In fleeing the scene, Rassman fell off of Kerry's boat. The other boats closed on the number three boat, saved the people who were knocked off of the boat in the water, saved the boat. And finally when it was evident that there was going to be no fire, Kerry finally returned and did the decent thing, and plucked Rassman out of the water, shortly before another boat did so, within 10 or 15 yards of another boat. But the story shown to the Democratic Convention that portrayed our guys as fleeing is just a calculated lie. It makes no sense because the number three boat that they all closed on had no engines; it couldn't flee, Pat. It just couldn't happen.
ROBERTSON: So you are saying that Kerry gunned his boat, and in that Rassman fell over the side? Is that what you say happened?
O'NEILL: I am saying exactly that. Rassman fell off of Kerry's boat. Kerry's boat fled the scene. It was the only boat to flee the scene. All of the other guys, as we always did, stood to fight, to save the survivors of the number three boat. There was no fire, as it turned out. They saved the survivors, and after it became evident there was no fire, Kerry returned. His story is the world turned upside down, according to the people involved in that incident.
ROBERTSON: He said on the floor of the United States Senate that he had spent Christmas in Cambodia, and this was in 1968. And he said he was amazed that President Nixon, who was not in office at that time, was claiming we were not in Cambodia, and he was taking fire from the Viet Cong and Khmer Rouge and other groups. Was any of that true?
O'NEILL: It is a total lie, Pat. This is one of his war crimes story. He made up the story that the U.S. Government had secretly ordered him into Cambodia on Christmas Eve, and Christmas Day of 1968 he sat there desolate, wondering how they could illegally do this, listening to President Nixon, who as it turns out, did not become president for a long time. Every person that I know of - Hundreds of people - will say that is a complete and total lie. It is a typical Kerry lie, because it is made up to libel up the chain of the command and portraying Kerry as sort of an involuntary guy engaged in war crimes. And if I am not telling you the truth, if John Kerry was in Cambodia in December 24th and 25th, sue me today, Pat. John Kerry, sue me today, because once again, it is a complete lie about our unit.
ROBERTSON: Where was he?
O'NEILL: He was down at SaDec (SaDec Province, in the Mekong Delta, Vietnam), Pat. In his biography entitled "Tour of Duty," all of a sudden, instead of being in Cambodia on December the 25th and 25th - as he had said more than 50 times in articles, and on the floor of the Senate - all of a sudden in his biography "Tour of Duty," he is 55 miles away, at a base, safely ensconsed in a base, writing a letter about sugar plums dancing in his head.
ROBERTSON: What do you think about the other people who are veterans? It seemed like the number of veterans who are going for him, his own men who were on that boat, seem to swear by him. Has he somehow twisted their minds on that?
O'NEILL: They were, first of all, out of all the veterans in our unit, a very small number. Seven or eight people who served directly with him, out of about 10. And then, another small number of other people supported him from our unit. But there are 250-plus that signed the letter that can be found on SwiftVets.com | The Real Story on John Kerry's Military Service. A list of all their names, running from vice-admiral down to seaman, are contained in my book "Unfit for Command." The truth is, there are a very small number of people who support him. You'll find that some of those people were with him for as short a period of time as two days. The officers who served with him, 25 of them, two are dead. Out of the 23 living survivors who served with John Kerry day after day, operation after operation, 17 of them have condemned him. Seventeen of them indicated he was unfit to be the president of the United States. That's the truth, Pat.
ROBERTSON: You are being attacked for this book, I'm sure. I think there is a complaint before the FEC (Federal Election Commission) that this book was somehow funded contrary to the Campaign Finance Law. What are you going to do about that?
O'NEILL: They have so far had two large law firms send letters to 20 stations threatening suit if they carry our ad. Three different Kerry-related organizations filed complaints with the Federal Election Commission. None of that is going to silence us, Pat. We have 60 people who received the Purple Heart in Vietnam and nine who received the Silver Star. We bought that with blood and service in Vietnam, and when affairs of our unit are being discussed, it is integral to the First Amendment and integral to the ability of people to gain the truth, that we have the right to speak. One thing they can't do yet, Pat, is burn a book. They won't be able to burn this book.
ROBERTSON: It is looks like it is burning the records from amazon.com, and it was just released yesterday. It just came out, and ladies and gentlemen, you really ought to read this. "Unfit for Command." It is an explosive book, and it has pictures in here of all of the pictures we are talking about, including that war museum there in Saigon. You ought to find it interesting. And give it to your friends. John, thank you for so much for being with us today.
O'NEILL: One thing I'd point out is, any proceeds from my interest in the book are going to military-related charities. I am not making a dime off of the book.
ROBERTSON: Fantastic. John O'Neill, ladies and gentlemen, the author of "Unfit for Command." It is dynamite.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Asgara, posted 08-12-2004 7:31 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Asgara, posted 08-12-2004 9:26 PM johnfolton has replied
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 08-12-2004 10:13 PM johnfolton has replied

Asgara
Member (Idle past 2328 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 29 of 612 (133401)
08-12-2004 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by johnfolton
08-12-2004 9:22 PM


Re: JOHN O'NEILL Interviewed by CBN
Now, please give something from someone who was ACTUALLY there. Possibly Rassman himself???
This message has been edited by Asgara, 08-12-2004 08:31 PM

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by johnfolton, posted 08-12-2004 9:22 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by johnfolton, posted 08-12-2004 11:07 PM Asgara has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1492 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 30 of 612 (133417)
08-12-2004 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by johnfolton
08-12-2004 9:22 PM


He made up the story that the U.S. Government had secretly ordered him into Cambodia on Christmas Eve, and Christmas Day of 1968 he sat there desolate, wondering how they could illegally do this, listening to President Nixon, who as it turns out, did not become president for a long time.
I don't entirely understand this.
Nixon was elected president in 1968. What's the issue here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by johnfolton, posted 08-12-2004 9:22 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by johnfolton, posted 08-12-2004 11:25 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 42 by johnfolton, posted 08-14-2004 6:44 PM crashfrog has replied

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