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Author Topic:   How can Biologists believe in the ToE?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 46 of 304 (398759)
05-02-2007 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by riVeRraT
05-02-2007 10:13 AM


Re: Re-ToE
riverrat writes:
So it's ok to believe in ToE, and creation?
See, this is what I don't understand about you and other creationists. According to you, there was a world wide flood that killed off everything except for Noah's family and the creatures that lived onboard his ark. There are around 2 million species known to us, and let's not forget the ones that haven't been discovered yet. Either Noah had 4 million animal on his ark for a whole year or he only had a few "kinds" and that these animal hyper-evolved into all the species we have today.
So, do you believe Noah had 4 million animal on his ark or not? If not, then surely you must believe in some kind of evolution to explain all the biodiversity we see today.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 05-02-2007 10:13 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 05-02-2007 9:48 PM Taz has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 47 of 304 (398788)
05-02-2007 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Taz
05-02-2007 1:32 PM


Off-topic alert
Personally, I rather like the content of the message, but...
isn't it getting pretty far removed from this topics theme "How can Biologists believe in the ToE?"?
Please do not reply to this message in this topic. If you must reply, please go to the "General..." topic, link below.
Adminnemooseus

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This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 48 of 304 (398839)
05-02-2007 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Taz
05-02-2007 1:32 PM


Re: Re-ToE
See, this is what I don't understand about you and other creationists. According to you, there was a world wide flood that killed off everything except for Noah's family and the creatures that lived onboard his ark
Just for clarity,I do not know if I am a "creationist" or not. I believe in God. I believe He did create the world. How He did it, is still up in the air.
As far as the flood goes, I still believe it could have happened, and if it did, it was a God thing, not a science thing.
I do not know enough about the ToE to believe in it or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Taz, posted 05-02-2007 1:32 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Nuggin, posted 05-03-2007 12:24 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 50 by iceage, posted 05-03-2007 12:48 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 55 by Modulous, posted 05-03-2007 11:37 AM riVeRraT has replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 49 of 304 (398873)
05-03-2007 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by riVeRraT
05-02-2007 9:48 PM


Re: Re-ToE
I do not know enough about the ToE to believe in it or not.
I hear ya. I'm the same way about gravity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 05-02-2007 9:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by riVeRraT, posted 05-03-2007 8:37 AM Nuggin has replied

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5914 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 50 of 304 (398885)
05-03-2007 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by riVeRraT
05-02-2007 9:48 PM


Re: Re-ToE
RiverRat writes:
As far as the flood goes, I still believe it could have happened, and if it did, it was a God thing, not a science thing.
If it was a God thing, then God manipulated the resultant evidence in such away that a honest and objective investigator would conclude otherwise.
Now why would God ever do that?
The proof that the world is old and a world wide flood did not happen a few thousands years ago is under your feet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 05-02-2007 9:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 51 of 304 (398965)
05-03-2007 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Nuggin
05-03-2007 12:24 AM


Re: Re-ToE
I hear ya. I'm the same way about gravity.
Comparing gravity to the ToE, is, well, idiotic.
So tell me, just how does gravity work?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 52 of 304 (398966)
05-03-2007 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by iceage
05-03-2007 12:48 AM


Re: Re-ToE
Now why would God ever do that?
So we can have faith.
God knew Jesus was going to come, and that there would be a day when Him showing up here and there was not required, and that the temple is us now.
The bible tells us to focus on the unseen, not the seen.

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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 53 of 304 (398979)
05-03-2007 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by riVeRraT
05-03-2007 8:37 AM


Re: Re-ToE
So tell me, just how does gravity work?
NOBODY knows.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by riVeRraT, posted 05-03-2007 8:37 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2492 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 54 of 304 (398988)
05-03-2007 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by riVeRraT
05-03-2007 8:37 AM


Re: Re-ToE
Comparing gravity to the ToE, is, well, idiotic.
Sigh. Gotta love it when you are making fun of someone for being stupid and they just don't get it.
You said, you don't know enough about ToE (a subject about which A LOT is known) to believe in it.
I said I felt the same way about gravity (something we know little about yet all believe in) as a means of showing you how ridiculous your statement was.
Clearly, if you don't know enough about ToE to believe in it, you can't possible believe in something as out there as gravity.
Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by riVeRraT, posted 05-03-2007 8:37 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 55 of 304 (398989)
05-03-2007 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by riVeRraT
05-02-2007 9:48 PM


The ToE and why people accept it without realizing
I do not know enough about the ToE to believe in it or not.
Nobody believes in the ToE - scientists believe that it is the most complete and consistent scientific theory to explain how populations change over generations. One of the mechanisms is that chance variations occur that change populations over time. To not believe that this is one of the mechanisms of change would require one to believe that genetic science is completely wrong, that genes either don't mutate or that their mutation does not affect populations over generations.
Naturally, knowing about all of the proposed mechanisms and how they work is beyond most people's interest levels. If you feel you'd like to learn more about them, there is a wealth of information out there for you. You may come to the conclusion that the theory is the best explanation for explaining changing populations though you may still disagree with just how much change is possible using the mechanisms described within.
As I said earlier, that populations change is not under dispute from most creationists. That the mechanisms can account for most of that change is not usually in dispute from creationists (though it is by IDists - it's their sole argument in fact), the only real issue is how much change has occurred?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by riVeRraT, posted 05-02-2007 9:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 56 of 304 (399002)
05-03-2007 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by riVeRraT
05-03-2007 8:41 AM


riVeRraT writes:
The bible tells us to focus on the unseen, not the seen.
No it doesn't. (That's one of the most exasperating things about talking to fundies.)
It tells us not to ignore the unseen. Remember that when the Bible was written, bacteria were unseen. A lot of what was unseen has been seen because we look at the real world instead of keeping our heads in the clouds.
Faith is not an excuse for blindness.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by riVeRraT, posted 05-03-2007 8:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 57 of 304 (399231)
05-04-2007 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Nuggin
05-03-2007 11:28 AM


Re: Re-ToE
[qs]Clearly, if you don't know enough about ToE to believe in it, you can't possible believe in something as out there as gravity.[q/s]
My point is, that I wouldn't compare the two.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 58 of 304 (399232)
05-04-2007 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Modulous
05-03-2007 11:37 AM


Re: The ToE and why people accept it without realizing
Nobody believes in the ToE - scientists believe
funny
Naturally, knowing about all of the proposed mechanisms and how they work is beyond most people's interest levels. If you feel you'd like to learn more about them, there is a wealth of information out there for you. You may come to the conclusion that the theory is the best explanation for explaining changing populations though you may still disagree with just how much change is possible using the mechanisms described within.
Given what I have learned here, and all that I have read, I don't have a problem with it. We very could have been created to evolve. Makes no difference to me.
Thanks for your answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Modulous, posted 05-03-2007 11:37 AM Modulous has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 59 of 304 (399233)
05-04-2007 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
05-03-2007 12:56 PM


# Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:5-7 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)
# Matthew 6:18
so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:17-19 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)
# 2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
2 Corinthians 4:17-18 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 4 (Whole Chapter)
So you understand the context in which I meant that.
I did not mean to imply, not to look at bacteria under a microscope, (which we can see.)
I am pointing what should be imporatant in our walk of faith. That is God, and love, not creation science.

This message is a reply to:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 60 of 304 (400104)
05-10-2007 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by nator
04-06-2007 9:04 AM


Re: Re-Kind
Hi nator,
I did not forget about your question. I just did not have time to research it as You said I was not qualified to define kind.
nator writes:
"Kind" is not a scientific term. It is one that is used only by Creationists.
If there actually was a definition, you would have provided it by now. There is no definion.
Careful with absolutes like there is no definion, if you meant definition.
Funk & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary (1975)
kind n. 1. A class or grouping; type.
2. The distinguishing character of something:
They differ in kind.
I take that to mean that humans are a kind, dogs are a kind, cats are a kind, rats are a kind, birds are a kind, fish are a kind, monkeys are a kind, baboons are a kind, apes are a kind horses are a kind, cows are a kind, hogs are a kind, snakes are a kind, etc.
Enjoy,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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