Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

My only observation is that you essentially have thrown all of the Bible out except Matthew 25.

The real question here is, Why do YOU throw away Matthew 25?

I don't. I realize the wisdom behind it....but I think some of us can end up finding works to do that make us feel good also...giving a bunch of homeless down-on-their-luck guys beer money and getting to know them may make ME feel good, but is it really what I am called to do? Not that I mind doing it...(I have my own people whom I help, and I feel that I can always do more...I battle my own selfish need to hold on to my money versus doing for others, but I am getting better)....

Yes you do. Constantly. You continue doing it in this very post, thinking up other ways to make yourself feel good. Yes, it is. In Matthew 19, Jesus told the young man to sell what he had and give to the poor. In Mark 12 and Luke 21, Jesus commended the widow for giving everything she had. In 1 Kings 17, Elijah encouraged another widow to give everything she had.It's a theme. It's what it means to have faith.But you throw it away in favour of a get-out-of-hell-free card.

if all you do is give them beer money and listen to their sob stories on a bar stool next to them, you are not helping them do anything except express their frustrations and excuses in life.

The whole thing seemed to be invented to make it simpler to get more converts (and to keep them).(Whether it really was necessary is another issue)The same people who bribe, with "salvation by faith" (Luther added the word "alone" after "faith" in his German Bible text of Romans), will then be quick to selectively attack minorities, like homosexuals, for their "evil works"."Evil deeds" will be thrown around to bribe the 98% of straight folks who want to feel some "holy" feeling in doing their good works.Bribe those (like 98% of straights) who want to feel righteous by condemning homosexuals for "evil deeds".Then selectively bribe with the other side of the coin with "just believe and you are going to live forever".Then collect more coin donations from the proud congregation.Pure bribery.Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

You certainly make a case for corruption within organized religion. We know it happens, but we can't vilify everyone. Can we make the claim that Luther, Calvin, and the early church fathers invented salvation by grace alone through faith alone? And if so, can we attribute ulterior (greedy) motives?jar and ringo provide the counter-argument that Christianity is about what we actually do for others...no strings attached. What gets me is that God is not even needed for this good action to occur...we all may well be altruistic secular humanists. And of course, that negates the idea of original sin. What do you think of the doctrine of original sin? Why did they market that one?

Original Sin is the ultimate con-job, the perfect fraud. It simply says "I know it's not your fault and that YOU didn't bring sin into the world but YOU are still damned and only if you kiss Hank's Ass will you get saved. Oh, and if there is not any after life or if after you die you find out you really are damned for all eternity ... tough nuggies. "

So are you supporting the idea that Calvin (and perhaps Luther also) were cons? That the church marketed to acquire a paying audience?

No, I am not asserting motives and have repeatedly said it is pretty much impossible to actually determine motives. I am address in argument itself; the substance and conclusions to be drawn from the concept of Original Sin.Luther is quite different than Calvin and again, have you read the 95 Theses?It involves behavior not original sin. And by the way, the Roman Catholic Church agreed with almost every single complaint he made and implemented adoption of his suggestions.

That's a copout. It's an excuse to do nothing.Jesus didn't tell you to do a background check on everybody you help. He just said help.Give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Don't stereotype everybody who asks for help as a drunk.

Paul himself said that the Gentiles had consciences, even though they didn't believe in the Jewish God. Yes. As a social species, we evolved that way. Unfortunately, religion is often a stumbling block to our best instincts.

It's one step forward and 50 steps back but it's progress of sorts.Remember Ocams Razor? Introducing a hyoer-complex superior being with magical abilities in order to explain what is explicable without is redundant. Of course god isn't needed for good actions to occur! Even us evil atheists have our nice moments. Well that's obviously garbage in its own right. A pure invention and an really evil one at that. Christ, it couldn't be easier. 'Unless I baptise you, and you join my club you're going to hell'. Where do I sign?Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

So is pride. Granted the passage goes on to say that there is none who does good....which you could argue is precisely not what you advocate. The jury is still out on whether a relationship or acknowledgment of Jesus Christ is even necessary...some of us believe that it obviously is required. You, on the other hand, believe that the good works are all that is required and if God exists, He will sort the sheep and goats to their respective destinies.

And the ultimate hubris is thinking that God talks to you. I don't say that. I say if there was a God He wouldn't be as stupid as you make Him out to be.